Why am I supposed to feel bad about being a naughty fascist when the bad "guys" literally suck a dude's brains out?

You arent. You are supposed to applaud it. And they are fashists how? Because one dresses like one?

The problem is that people keep claiming the BOOK is faschist. When it very is not. Its closer to Socialist I guess? Only people who are willing to serve the community in some way get to vote. And anyone applying has to be found a place. Even if its a desk job or dog catcher.

My issue is that the politics are merely a backdrop for the centerpiece of the novel, its true big idea, the powered armor. The actual starship troopers.

Which, of course, are omitted from the movie.

And instead we get a military that operates like duded-up World War II infantry. It's not even Vietnam-level tactics.

Now if someone does a proper Starship Troopers movie, people will say they're ripping off Iron Man.

It warmed my heart to see that the Martian Marines in The Expanse have actual powered armour. 

But yeah, no powered armour and really bad tactics.  Why are all the ships so close together that they collide?  Space is really big you know.  Why are the fort's structural supports outside the walls?  If they knew about the bugs, why aren't they armed with weapons designed to kill the bugs?

And where are the tanks and APCs and simple bombers that would annihilate the bugs?

Add some big pots of boiling water and some drawn butter, those things always made me hungry for crab legs.

What I've always heard is that Paul Verhoeven had someone else read read the book for him, and they told him it was fascist, and then he just projected that onto his movie. A lot of Verhoeven's Hollywood movies seem to be attempts to satirize his Euro-weenie perceptions of America. The irony is that in doing so, he wound up making some of the best schlock American action movies of his era.

Sargon of Akkad made a pretty interesting video on Starship Troopers a long time ago, which among other things, makes the case that Verhoeven botched the satire to the extent that even in his movie the Terran Federation is entirely in the right.

(The argument about the movie starts at around 1:03:20 of the video.)

Quote from: ForgottenF on October 29, 2024, 10:02:36 PMSargon of Akkad made a pretty interesting video on Starship Troopers a long time ago, which among other things, makes the case that Verhoeven botched the satire to the extent that even in his movie the Terran Federation is entirely in the right.

(The argument about the movie starts at around 1:03:20 of the video.)

Oh yeah. The things that make the movie palatable for me is the cheesy action movie aspect, the excellent soundtrack, and that Verhoeven either made a complete faceplant of a satire of fascism, or a very smart satire of satire itself. The only reason I think that's a possibility is because some scenes are lifted right out of the book, and then mangled into a parody strawman version, as if he's daring the watcher whose read the book to notice.

Its typical woke media. Just the 90s version.

I'd rather watch the anime than the movie ever again. The anime totally botched the bugs to the point they are not even bugs. They are some sort of bio-morphic things. What they got right was the power armor.

https://youtu.be/O4NEcDO9MNA

On another note, I think we need an alternative franchise that is true to the themes of the novel. Gender equality, racial equality and diversity (Johnny is Filipino in the book), etc.

I have a few ideas myself, including riffing on Starcraft, Aliens, etc.

I enjoyed the movie and I will enjoy it again in the future.

But I am a deplorable, irredeemable garbage Nazi cultist of the Orange Man Bad.

Happily too!

And now let us enjoy the best fight scene in the flick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgq0ecMHfzc

Loved the book, loved the movie, and never cared that they tell different stories with the same title.

It completely baffles me that anyone thinks Paul Verhoeven is trying to say anything one way or another about fascism in this movie. Verhoeven makes movies about the psychology of sex and violence, which is exactly what this movie is about as well. Not politics.

Quote from: Spinachcat on October 31, 2024, 07:36:29 PMAnd now let us enjoy the best fight scene in the flick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgq0ecMHfzc

On location at Hell's Half-acre.
Unfortunately, I couldn't get leave to go home for the week and be one of the extras in this battle.

Starship Troopers reminds me of The Iron Dream. Author Norman Spinrad set out to make a book that was a satire of Adolf Hitler and nazis, but ended up making the best pro-nazi recruitment book of all time.

You can't read that book without wanting to joining the True Men in their glorious fight against the Dominators.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 02, 2024, 12:49:57 PMStarship Troopers reminds me of The Iron Dream. Author Norman Spinrad set out to make a book that was a satire of Adolf Hitler and nazis, but ended up making the best pro-nazi recruitment book of all time.

You can't read that book without wanting to joining the True Men in their glorious fight against the Dominators.

According to Google: "The moral of The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad is that the triumphalist narrative of heroic fiction can lead to authoritarianism. Spinrad's book is a satire that highlights the connection between fascist ideology and the archetypal hero myths of science fiction and fantasy. The book's message is that the real world is full of ambiguities that are lost when utopian or dystopian books are expected to illuminate the present."

The problem is that this moral isn't visible in the text itself. That's the problem. You can't satirize something by presenting it uncritically. That's not how satire works outside the heads of leftoids.

I always find it funny that leftist satire like The Iron Dream and Starship Troopers is identical to idealistic fascist propaganda, whereas leftist propaganda like Manhunt (that novel where J.K. Rowling gets literally burned at the stake) is misogynistic torture porn. You literally need a framing device to explain the former is even satirical, whereas the latter is self-evidently repulsive to anyone isn't doped to the gills on the koolaid.

I think it's pretty telling that there's no famous leftwing epic fantasy other than Harry Potter, older epic fantasy like Lord of the Rings and Narnia are very conservative by comparison, and HP is considered politically incorrect conservative propaganda now.

Quote from: Zalman on November 01, 2024, 06:49:12 AMLoved the book, loved the movie, and never cared that they tell different stories with the same title.

It completely baffles me that anyone thinks Paul Verhoeven is trying to say anything one way or another about fascism in this movie. Verhoeven makes movies about the psychology of sex and violence, which is exactly what this movie is about as well. Not politics.

Maybe so, but I can't help but notice all the politics in the movie.