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Will 2024 D&D still be "evergreen", even if it doesn't sell well?

Started by Man at Arms, October 14, 2024, 01:21:31 PM

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Man at Arms

October 14, 2024, 01:21:31 PM
What will WOTC do, if 2024 D&D doesn't sell well?  Will 5E continue, to supposedly be "evergreen"?  How will they respond? 

Darrin Kelley

#1
October 14, 2024, 01:57:46 PM
I support the competition. Tales Of The Valiant. And according to Kobold Press, it is selling pretty well after the Kickstarters gave birth to it.

What happens to WOTC, I don't really care. They have gotten to the point where Hasbro doesn't trust them with their other properties in RPG form. Renegade Game Studios is bigger and more successful than they are with Hasbro properties. D&D will likely be farmed out to Renegade if WOTC falls on its face.
 

Chris24601

#2
October 14, 2024, 02:07:17 PM
What will be evergreen is the last SRD version released under either Creative Commons or at least OGL 1.0a.

Right now that is version 5.1 (i.e. a stripped down 5th Edition c. 2014).

For the 2024 version to supersede it as evergreen would require the bulk of it to be available via CC-by-4.0 or OGL 1.0a.

Anything less and the 2024 version will eventually fade away when the books get too hard to track down.

ForgottenF

#3
October 14, 2024, 06:10:46 PM
If D&D 2024 somehow sells badly enough to be considered a flop, I would expect them to quietly taper off of publishing D&D game books, and focus on selling merchandise/movies/videogames. If those also flop, I think they'd put the brand in deep storage and try again in 5-10 years.
Playing: Mongoose Traveller 2e
Running: Dolmenwood
Planning: Warlock!, Savage Lankhmar, Kogarashi

jhkim

#4
October 14, 2024, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on October 14, 2024, 02:07:17 PMWhat will be evergreen is the last SRD version released under either Creative Commons or at least OGL 1.0a.

Right now that is version 5.1 (i.e. a stripped down 5th Edition c. 2014).

For the 2024 version to supersede it as evergreen would require the bulk of it to be available via CC-by-4.0 or OGL 1.0a.

Anything less and the 2024 version will eventually fade away when the books get too hard to track down.

The announced plan is that they'll release the SRD version 5.2 as CC-BY after the core rulebooks are finished coming out with the new Monster Manual in February.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1717-2024-core-rulebooks-to-expand-the-srd

Chris24601

#5
October 14, 2024, 06:59:05 PM
Quote from: jhkim on October 14, 2024, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on October 14, 2024, 02:07:17 PMWhat will be evergreen is the last SRD version released under either Creative Commons or at least OGL 1.0a.

Right now that is version 5.1 (i.e. a stripped down 5th Edition c. 2014).

For the 2024 version to supersede it as evergreen would require the bulk of it to be available via CC-by-4.0 or OGL 1.0a.

Anything less and the 2024 version will eventually fade away when the books get too hard to track down.

The announced plan is that they'll release the SRD version 5.2 as CC-BY after the core rulebooks are finished coming out with the new Monster Manual in February.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1717-2024-core-rulebooks-to-expand-the-srd
Alright, then if the 2024 edition fails badly enough, that will likely become the "evergreen" WotC edition so long as someone is maintaining it somewhere.

If the RPG tanks they'll just shelve it and release some type of item (not necessarily RPG related) to keep the trademark active until someone comes up with a product they can slap the IP on.

Exploderwizard

#6
October 15, 2024, 03:01:52 PM
Take anything WOTC mentions as "evergreen" with big grain of salt. Remember the 4E Essentials books? They were supposed to be evergreen.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

tenbones

#7
October 15, 2024, 03:36:58 PM
No. At best you'll get ball-hangers that love 5e irrationally, and perhaps at best support it with 3rd party stuff.

I think the digital initiative that WotC is pushing is the sealing of the walled garden that will become the tomb of D&D. Will it die? No. It'll live in digital undeath.

Meanwhile outside of that walled crypt, we'll have all the room we need to do our own thing. Just as it used to be. This includes continue retrocloning of your favorite d20 editions, it includes exposing ourselves to new systems and settings. It will be the wild market of ideas where we'll get to let games rise/fall on their own merit. I'm looking forward to it.

weirdguy564

#8
October 15, 2024, 03:54:44 PM
Everyone should pick their favorite OSR, switch to that, then try another OSR if it doesn't feel right.

This noise about 5E, and 6E that's not 6E is getting old.  Their monopoly needs to stop.

I'm just glad I was never a D&D player at any point.   Its easy to switch to other games because I don't have a vested interest in D&D.
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

Brad

#9
October 16, 2024, 02:17:01 PM
I guess rotting meat sort of turns green and remains that way, so sure, why not.

My main issue with 5th edition is that after playing a couple campaigns I never really felt like it did anything particularly well and always felt sort of hollow. It's always been a Compromise Edition, trying to be everything to everyone, which made it watered down with no flavor.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

HappyDaze

#10
October 16, 2024, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on October 15, 2024, 03:54:44 PMEveryone should pick their favorite OSR, switch to that, then try another OSR if it doesn't feel right.

This noise about 5E, and 6E that's not 6E is getting old.  Their monopoly needs to stop.

I'm just glad I was never a D&D player at any point.   Its easy to switch to other games because I don't have a vested interest in D&D.
I'm not too into D&D anymore either, but I've never found an OSR game that's held my interest for long enough for me to even get through to the back cover of the book (and some of them are fairly short). Of course, that could be because the ones that I liked and considered OSR (e.g., Against the Darkmaster and Shadow of the Demon Lord) have been declared as not being true OSR since they're not built from D&D... But that's the point: If someone doesn't want D&D, I don't see why you'd suggest they play something built from D&D.

Omega

#11
October 17, 2024, 02:04:45 AM
Quote from: Man at Arms on October 14, 2024, 01:21:31 PMWhat will WOTC do, if 2024 D&D doesn't sell well?  Will 5E continue, to supposedly be "evergreen"?  How will they respond? 

5e was supposed to be "evergreen" but of course that was a lie.

6e will will be replaced with 7e in a few years. 5 if wotc goes back to their damn "5 year plan".

In fact if fake 5e fails then that is great for wotc as they can just trot out more better fake 5e and make the customers pay for that.

Exploderwizard

#12
October 18, 2024, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: Brad on October 16, 2024, 02:17:01 PMI guess rotting meat sort of turns green and remains that way, so sure, why not.

My main issue with 5th edition is that after playing a couple campaigns I never really felt like it did anything particularly well and always felt sort of hollow. It's always been a Compromise Edition, trying to be everything to everyone, which made it watered down with no flavor.

They made D&D Mexicali Soup

https://www.amazon.com/Mexicali-soup-Kathryn-Hitte/dp/0819304026
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Ratman_tf

#13
October 18, 2024, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 15, 2024, 03:01:52 PMTake anything WOTC mentions as "evergreen" with big grain of salt. Remember the 4E Essentials books? They were supposed to be evergreen.

Exactly. This new edition will be "Evergreen" until the next edition.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

RNGm

#14
October 19, 2024, 09:29:06 AM
Yeah, companies will say whatever suits them at the moment and then say something different weeks/months/years later when that new thing suits them.   Remember this doozy from Microsoft?

https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
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