So, I hear a lot about Savage Worlds.  I think it's the third most popular game behind D&D, and Pathfinder (which is a version of D&D). 

What I find the hardest to understand is the difference between your stats, which are dice, and skills, which are also dice.  However, a high stat doesn't make a related skill easier. They're not rolled together, or added up.   

It does make it easier to increase a skill when the stat is high.   But, that only matters when it's time to "level up" a skill from a small dice to the next size dice.

I think I heard once that stats are used as savings throws, while skills are used when you're acting on your turn against somebody. 

I think you get it.

The thing about stats not contributing directly to skills is odd, but yeah that's how it works. If memory serves, you use them for your rolls to recover from wounds, and sometimes for things where no skill applies. It put me off the system at first, too, but since advances are relatively easy to come by, it's not a big deal.

For my dollar, Savage Worlds occupies a similar position to things like D6 and the Omni System. It's a solid universal classless system that's a bit less crunchy than BRP or GURPS.

I've only played one game of it.  It seemed interesting for a generic system. 

This is why I fell in love with the system from Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool Edition. 

In DDDPE your 5 stats are dice, your 20 skills are dice, and most of your racial and class abilities are a dice. 

Roll them all, pick the best two, and that is your roll.  Beat a target number. 

Example: A Dwarf can have a bonus with Axes.  A Barbarian can have a bonus with 2-handlers.  Roll your strength of 1D8, Melee skill of 1D6, racial axe bonus of 1D4, and class 2-handed bonus of 1D4. 

Result: 5, 1, 3, 1.  Pick the 5+3, and you rolled an 8 because of your high strength and racial proclivity for axes. 

Savage Worlds seems like your stats don't matter that much.

Do any Savage Workd vets want to chime in?   Do you roll your stats very much, or are they sort of a mute point because of the way the game is played?

Strength is rolled for melee attack damage, Spirit is rolled to throw off Shaken (this is a very common roll; IIRC, some settings have a skill for this), Vigor gets rolled for healing, Agility gets rolled to avoid area effects, there are other places where attributes are directly rolled.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 19, 2024, 10:25:03 PMSo, I hear a lot about Savage Worlds.  I think it's the third most popular game behind D&D, and Pathfinder (which is a version of D&D). 

What I find the hardest to understand is the difference between your stats, which are dice, and skills, which are also dice.  However, a high stat doesn't make a related skill easier. They're not rolled together, or added up.   

It does make it easier to increase a skill when the stat is high.   But, that only matters when it's time to "level up" a skill from a small dice to the next size dice.

I think I heard once that stats are used as savings throws, while skills are used when you're acting on your turn against somebody.

You understand it better than you present in this post. The difficulty you're having is what you understand is weird compared to other RPGs and so you're second-guessing yourself.

What I suspect you're really trying to ask is, "What is the point of attributes if they don't modify skill rolls?"

Online discussion around Savage Worlds does a poor job of answering this question, largely because you learn by doing. Typically this question is being asked by someone who's never actually played Savage Worlds, and so we use the language of D&D, which pretty much everyone understands. D&D is an imperfect tool to use to describe Savage Worlds. The reality is attributes get rolled more often than, "Attributes are saving throws," implies, but this is not true in all games, and it's least true in games with inexperienced players.

Strength is used for melee damage rolls (and some ranged damage rolls) as well as determining whether you're strong enough to use a particular piece of equipment.

Vigor is used for a variety of not-dying related things, both static values and rolls.

It is not clear to a lot of newer players what the other three attributes are for, apart from serving as a soft cap on skills (skills rated above the linked attribute are more expensive).

Spirit is used to recover from having the wind knocked out of you. This is a thing that happens in combat which isn't prevalent in other games. The actual term is "shaken" and it's broader than simply having the wind knocked out of you, but it's a precursor condition to being wounded.

Agility is used to get out of the way of dragonbreath, dive into a bathtub before a stick of dynamite explodes, or a variety of other, "Duck and cover!" situations.

What about smarts?

Smarts has the most skills linked to it, and so it does relatively little by itself.

Savage Worlds has a mechanic called "test" which a catch-all term for various shenanigans one might engage in to throw an opponent off-balance - throwing sand in the eyes, "Is that a rabbit over there?", "I see your Schwartz is as big as mine! But can you use it?", the halfling running between the ogre's legs to confuse it, and so forth. Tests are performed to set up your allies. When you do this, you roll a skill. "Is that a rabbit over there?" might be persuasion. The halfling running underneath the ogre might be athletics. The defender then rolls the attribute linked to the skill you used. "Is that a rabbit over there?" would be persuasion versus spirit, while the halfling maneuver would be athletics versus agility.

If you're not using the test mechanic, then attributes will be rolled less frequently in game. Newer groups tend to use fewer tests overall.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 19, 2024, 10:25:03 PMI think I heard once that stats are used as savings throws, while skills are used when you're acting on your turn against somebody.

I'd say that's accurate.

I like the effect of it, though. In skill-based systems, I prefer the design choice to require serious investment in skill in order to be good at that skill.

--

In some generic systems, having a high attribute gets you skill for free or very cheap. Say you have a high-Intelligence bookish wizard. Under some systems, the bookish wizard can easily become great at Survival and Tracking, if those are Intelligence-based. Effectively, this means that the only character niches are based around attributes - i.e. there are only two classes "Intelligence class" and "Dexterity class".

Requiring more investment for skills leads to more character types, because the bookish wizard can't easily compete with the ranger's outdoor skills.

Quote from: Corolinth on Today at 11:41:28 AMWhat about smarts?

Smarts has the most skills linked to it, and so it does relatively little by itself.

I'd note that Smarts is used to resist Taunt and other attempts to fool the character.

I like how Taunt is a well-supported skill in Savage Worlds, and it can be very useful in combat.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 12:11:46 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on Today at 11:41:28 AMWhat about smarts?

Smarts has the most skills linked to it, and so it does relatively little by itself.

I'd note that Smarts is used to resist Taunt and other attempts to fool the character.

I like how Taunt is a well-supported skill in Savage Worlds, and it can be very useful in combat.

That gets into the tests mechanic. Because Smarts has the most skills linked to it (including the easiest to use for a test), in theory it's the most useful for making those defensive rolls.

i.e. Smarts doesn't need any additional "help" to convince people why they should have it.