Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 11, 2024, 11:50:16 AMI doubt anyone can ever compete with Drivethru but it would be great if indie authors could at least sell their stuff at alternative places. I don't want to buy products that are censored for politically correct man-babies, personally.

itch.io seems to be picking up. I think it might be years before it's really competitive (and they only cover digital, you need to use Lulu or something else for print). But it is viable and an alternative.

It's not on DriveThru's corporate behemoth scale, but as a little guy, I discovered Gumroad as a DriveThru alternative.

We can support the little guy by posting or buying wares there.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 21, 2024, 02:23:37 PM

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on August 20, 2024, 04:43:07 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 16, 2024, 08:43:04 PMBut all this 'should be' a moot point because Drivethru technically has a section for mature material. Of course, it's not working as it should, sadly.

I'll believe DTRPG truly cares about sensitive topics when they pull some of the stuff White Wolf/Onyx Path put out.  Not that I'll agree with it even then, but at least I'll think their intentions are honest (albeit wrong).  Until then it's just favoritism masked as social awareness. 

100%!! I said this a while ago too. DT let a lot of the Vamp Black Dog stuff through (and other gnarly stuff). But no way would they ever go near WW because of their influence and cash generated for DT.

Some 'companies' are more 'equal' than others it seems.

10000%!!!!  I complained several times about the game Comrades because it was inspired by and was made to inspire others to violent revolution.  I did this in the name of equal treatment of the policy, as opposed to a 2-tier standard.  In the guy's crowdfund campaign and in the book itself, the creator lamented how revolutionaries became candy-coated, and where are the really committed, violent extremism in communist rebels like in the old days?  ...And the game is made int he hopes of inspiring real revolutionaries.

But this guy brings in $$$ with his communist game (hypocritical... if you ask me, a game promoting the end of capitalism should be available to the masses for free, on poorly Xeroxed paper), so Drive Thru deemed this more equal than others in both the cash category and the ideology category.  The game remains available in violation of OneBookshelf's policy, but now it's okay now, because the seller now added a lie on the DriveThru page that the game doesn't promote real-life violence.  So that excuses the content now.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on August 25, 2024, 05:08:29 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 21, 2024, 02:23:37 PM

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on August 20, 2024, 04:43:07 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 16, 2024, 08:43:04 PMBut all this 'should be' a moot point because Drivethru technically has a section for mature material. Of course, it's not working as it should, sadly.

I'll believe DTRPG truly cares about sensitive topics when they pull some of the stuff White Wolf/Onyx Path put out.  Not that I'll agree with it even then, but at least I'll think their intentions are honest (albeit wrong).  Until then it's just favoritism masked as social awareness. 

100%!! I said this a while ago too. DT let a lot of the Vamp Black Dog stuff through (and other gnarly stuff). But no way would they ever go near WW because of their influence and cash generated for DT.

Some 'companies' are more 'equal' than others it seems.

10000%!!!!  I complained several times about the game Comrades because it was inspired by and was made to inspire others to violent revolution.  I did this in the name of equal treatment of the policy, as opposed to a 2-tier standard.  In the guy's crowdfund campaign and in the book itself, the creator lamented how revolutionaries became candy-coated, and where are the really committed, violent extremism in communist rebels like in the old days?  ...And the game is made int he hopes of inspiring real revolutionaries.

But this guy brings in $$$ with his communist game (hypocritical... if you ask me, a game promoting the end of capitalism should be available to the masses for free, on poorly Xeroxed paper), so Drive Thru deemed this more equal than others in both the cash category and the ideology category.  The game remains available in violation of OneBookshelf's policy, but now it's okay now, because the seller now added a lie on the DriveThru page that the game doesn't promote real-life violence.  So that excuses the content now.

This is it, mate! Basically, a two tiered approach to censorship which really pisses me off. Sure, they can have a standard of stuff that they don't want on 'their' platform, as they are a private company. But you can't have it both ways. You either allow mature content for mature people or you don't.

It just seems unfair to blacklist a certain creator(s) for scoring a few political points while snatching the hand off a company like white wolf at the same time. Clan book Baali anyone? It's all about the cash!

Of course, I'm anti-censorship, but it would at least make it more palatable if the same standards were applied to everything. And not one of pandering to 'modern politics'. I mean, what has that got to do with gaming after all??

Quote from: migo link=msg=1290058 date=1724617241
url="//itch.io"]itch.io[/url] seems to be picking up. I think it might be years before it's really competitive (and they only cover digital, you need to use Lulu or something else for print). But it is viable and an alternative.

The problem with itch.io is that the site itself is an utter disaster.  There are some real games on there like Lancer.  It's also clogged with a ton of political pamphlets pretending to be ttrpgs, narcissistic self-indulgences, solo journaling "games", PbtA shovelware, stuff I am convinced are just shitposts, people who don't know what a 'zine is and various other detritus.  DTRPG's search function isn't great but the search functionality on itch.io is just useless.  Finding anything requires digging through page after page of worthless garbage.  I wouldn't be surprised if a large majority of products have sold in the single digits or that a substantial percentage haven't sold at all to anyone.   

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 26, 2024, 06:45:44 AMThe problem with itch.io is that the site itself is an utter disaster.  There are some real games on there like Lancer.  It's also clogged with a ton of political pamphlets pretending to be ttrpgs, narcissistic self-indulgences, solo journaling "games", PbtA shovelware, stuff I am convinced are just shitposts, people who don't know what a 'zine is and various other detritus.  DTRPG's search function isn't great but the search functionality on itch.io is just useless.  Finding anything requires digging through page after page of worthless garbage.  I wouldn't be surprised if a large majority of products have sold in the single digits or that a substantial percentage haven't sold at all to anyone.   

It doesn't need to function as a platform for discovering new RPGs, it just needs to serve as a platform to host PDFs, and buy them. Then it's about finding out about games the way we used to before DTRPG exploded.

Quote from: migo on August 26, 2024, 07:12:12 AMIt doesn't need to function as a platform for discovering new RPGs, it just needs to serve as a platform to host PDFs, and buy them. Then it's about finding out about games the way we used to before DTRPG exploded.

The way we found out about micro-press indie rpgs back then was that most people didn't find out about them at all.  I am a collector of oddities with a large collection of indie rpgs and I am sure there are lots of games from the 80s and 90s that I completely missed.  Before people can buy your product, they have to know it exists.  They have to be able to find it.  itch.io isn't very helpful in that regard. 

I've found out about games that aren't available on DTRPG and are only available on itch.io (or sometimes even only available on Lulu as a PDF). Realistically if you're a game designer you should be designing the game for yourself, and then offering it out there for anyone else who may also like it. If it takes off, that's great. But even with good marketing and good placement it may not sell if it's simply something people don't like.

Quote from: migo on August 25, 2024, 04:20:41 PMitch.io seems to be picking up. I think it might be years before it's really competitive (and they only cover digital, you need to use Lulu or something else for print). But it is viable and an alternative.

No, it really isn't.

Quote from: migo on August 26, 2024, 11:56:49 AMRealistically if you're a game designer you should be designing the game for yourself, and then offering it out there for anyone else who may also like it. If it takes off, that's great. But even with good marketing and good placement it may not sell if it's simply something people don't like.

That would be my assessment as well. I design games I want to play if anyone else likes it sweet. If not... that's okay. I mean, we'd all like for people to be enjoying our creations but truth be told that rarely happens. Marketing does play a part, but longevity and popularity are key factors.
A good game is relative as well, especially with the modern audience.

Of course, if your trying to be a pro then that's a different matter as your going to have to hit that sweet spot that makes your game desirable to 'x' amount of people.

Zak comming back to Raggi is the most 2024 thing that the Lamentions of the Flame Proncess imprint can do ! And it had ! But I would suggest a radical increase in quality from both Raggi (dude, you onw my a Referee's Handbook, which has become older than my own niece and nephew, for Jesus'sake !) and Zak, for their last book was no good enough, to my taste.
And Zakki boi had a dirty litte secret, now reaveled : his former lover, whatever her name, was his legal wife, not his live in girlfriend and 50 something Zakki boi is engaged, in the futile struggle, of maintining his male ego and diginity, in an acrimonious and international divorce ! God bless your soul, Zachary Smith, for he has not blessed your mind, your spirit and your body !
And buzz off, if you read this, you sell-out punk !!!

The fact I was married to Mandy was not a secret--she was a Canadian living in LA for over 10 years. And: we've been through this before.

**CONTENT REMOVED**
I dunno why that was removed but here's a link to Yabaziou apologizing for smearing me last time: https://64.media.tumblr.com/1851fea141b22b32355267405954dbc0/fcbb9cf27506fccd-80/s1280x1920/127ad7b4e3b5cce21ffb855894f9e0c355b4e77b.jpg

First, I do thank the moderation team for removing my doxxing by Zakki Boi.
Secondly, while I maintain my apologies for meddling in the affairs of Zak S., my apologies only extend to a certain degree.
Do I wish harm to ZaK S ? Of course, not ! Who, of sound mind, would wish harm to a total stranger, whose circonstances are, in reality, unknown to me ?
Is Zak S under criminal investigations ? To the best of my knowlegde, he is not, and even if it was the case, I would stress the fact that he is innocent, like me and everyone on this forum.
Do I endorse Zak S and his behavior ? NO
Do I have to endorse it ? NO
I remember a time, when Zak S was quite contemptious of the (many) rpg communities and when he declared that his TTRPG offerings were more a side job (which is something that many good people do) and he said his main job was porn actor (good for him).
The man has been, indeed, the victim of a vicious and vile smear campaign, and he has my compassion for that, but the tools that were used against him were, in fact, the very tools he asks to be used against his own foes : octrazitation and viewing them as "sub-human".
I do think most of you realize who had used those tools, in the past and in the present : not people with whom I wish to associate with ...
I wish James Raggi IV and Zak S the best, but I have come to the realization that the best for me is being far away from their grotesque circus, for my late father and my still alive mother had taught me better ...

Just want to state that I did not remove anything from Zak's post, nor did I tell anyone else to, nor was I informed that it was removed by someone (there's really only one other admin here these days, and Brett is focused on the tech, not on moderation).

So I don't know what happened there...

Well whatever happened I didn't doxx anyone this dude is a liar, says unhinged shit all the time and has had to publicly (public action is not "doxing") apologise in the very recent past for it
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1851fea141b22b32355267405954dbc0/fcbb9cf27506fccd-80/s1280x1920/127ad7b4e3b5cce21ffb855894f9e0c355b4e77b.jpg

As for his current complaints:
Arguing about what the consequences for harmful behavior should be is just a way of distracting people from the more important and real question of whether a person actually did the bad behavior.