Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMI haven't seen much complaints about the actual rules, at least from people who don't just hate the modern style anyway (and they probably didn't care for the 2014 version either). It's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

For me it's "all of the above". I turned my back on D&D since 3e in 2001. Haven't looked back since.

All WoTC and their fanboys deserve is admonishment.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Isn't that what you just tried to do with your reply? Nobody can make your game political if you don't let them.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:39:23 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Isn't that what you just tried to do with your reply? Nobody can make your game political if you don't let them.

This is absolutely true and it includes purchasing game material full of political bullshit.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Nobleshield, just stop. Happydaze either is trolling or really is that unaware, or buys into WoTC's BS.

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 01:43:01 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Nobleshield, just stop. Happydaze either is trolling or really is that unaware, or buys into WoTC's BS.

Yes, perish the though of others engaging with people that don't echo your own beliefs.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:57:35 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 01:43:01 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Nobleshield, just stop. Happydaze either is trolling or really is that unaware, or buys into WoTC's BS.

Yes, perish the though of others engaging with people that don't echo your own beliefs.

I have, I said my point of view, you have yours, we disagree. Done. What more is there to say?

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 02:03:59 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:57:35 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 01:43:01 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 01:36:38 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:33:05 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...

It's not about "impact on playing the game".  It's about turning a game political and sending a clear political message because these left-wingers think everything is political and everything has to be a political stand.

Nobleshield, just stop. Happydaze either is trolling or really is that unaware, or buys into WoTC's BS.

Yes, perish the though of others engaging with people that don't echo your own beliefs.

I have, I said my point of view, you have yours, we disagree. Done. What more is there to say?

I wasn't the one telling others to stop conversing.

"It's not happening"
"It's happening but there's no connection"
"It's happening but why do you care?"
"Why are you yelling at the clouds?"
"It's happening and it's a good thing"

Rinse and repeat.

Stop engaging with disingenuous twats

Quote from: Eirikrautha on September 15, 2024, 10:15:49 AMOn the other hand, the whole "I'm above politics; therefore, both sides are wrong here" is also a dodge.  It is purposely warping what is happening in the industry to try and avoid having to take a stand (or because you actually support the politics and don't want to give your opponents a space to voice their disapproval).  It's what jhkim is doing with his:

Quote from: jhkim on September 14, 2024, 10:04:01 PMI agree. It should be fine to differ on taste. There can be some people who like it, some people who don't, and some people who are neutral or undecided - especially because they haven't seen it yet. It isn't even in general release to buy until Sep 17th.  (My note - This is false, as anyone who preordered at the right tier had it on DNDBeyond for weeks, and a friend's hardcopy ordered from WotC got here two days ago.)

But some people say that you must have an opinion about it as a matter of politics, and if you have the wrong opinion - or if you say that it's just a matter of taste - then you're a fascist or Marxist. cf. https://www.therpgsite.com/index.php?msg=1291346

The bold above is from Eirikrautha. To clarify on release - "Limited release" would mean only distributing certain people - like only at conventions or only to those who preordered. "General release" is when anyone can walk into a store and buy it. The 2024 PHB only goes into general release tomorrow (Sep 17). I stopped by my local hobby store yesterday after church - they confirmed that they can't sell it to me until Tuesday.

Regarding the characterization of "I'm above politics; therefore, both sides are wrong here" - that isn't my position.

I absolutely care about politics in general. However, I prefer to engage with politics by action outside of playing my RPGs. My RPG playing is for my personal fun, not a political statement.

Even outside of RPGs, I don't boycott any seller whose politics differ from mine. I reserve boycotting for only for particularly extreme or impactful cases, and I don't think that tabletop RPGs are very impactful in politics. They're too do-it-yourself as a hobby.

WotC products don't represent my political values as far as I can tell, but I believe they're politically biased. What I question is that it'll make any significant difference in the politics of the world if I play D&D5.5 compared to any other game.

Anyone else is welcome to try to save the world by what RPG they play, and I have no problem with that. I plan to wait a while, hear about how 2024 D&D plays, and decide based on how fun I expect it will be for me to play, compared to the other options.

Quote from: jhkim on September 16, 2024, 04:45:26 PMI stopped by my local hobby store yesterday after church - they confirmed that they can't sell it to me until Tuesday.

That's odd. I walked into a store and picked one up over a week ago. No preorder was required. In fact, I was surprised to see it on the shelf that day.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 04:51:06 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 16, 2024, 04:45:26 PMI stopped by my local hobby store yesterday after church - they confirmed that they can't sell it to me until Tuesday.

That's odd. I walked into a store and picked one up over a week ago. No preorder was required. In fact, I was surprised to see it on the shelf that day.

Mine told me they were able to sell theirs like a week early.  it's already out on the shelves.

Says:

Quote from: jhkim on September 16, 2024, 04:45:26 PMRegarding the characterization of "I'm above politics; therefore, both sides are wrong here" - that isn't my position.

Proceeds to explain he doesn't care about politics in game, doesn't think politics in RPGs affect the world, and therefore both sides are wrong.

Never change, jhkim.  Sure, the level of self-delusion and duplicitousness in the world would decrease, but so would the humor...

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 04:55:24 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 04:51:06 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 16, 2024, 04:45:26 PMI stopped by my local hobby store yesterday after church - they confirmed that they can't sell it to me until Tuesday.

That's odd. I walked into a store and picked one up over a week ago. No preorder was required. In fact, I was surprised to see it on the shelf that day.

Mine told me they were able to sell theirs like a week early.  it's already out on the shelves.

Apparently some hobby stores (but not all) have a special deal. It isn't available in general bookstores (like Amazon) until Sep 17. I went to Game Kastle in Redwood City, and they said it wasn't available until the 17th. From quick search, these were the dates posted on ENWorld.