I want to RP in an alternate reality/home brewed setting that is clearly meant to be like Star Wars, but distinct enough that it could be published one day (not likely, but let's pretend). 

What I want are ideas for how to portray Knights of <insert sci-fi name> and the powers they could have.

I'll go first, as it was my idea after all.  I'll also add that I'm not sold on my own ideas, and could drastically change what I'm looking for.

1.  Teleportation via a "tunnel".  Or, rather warping space.  My thinking is in the future of space warfare, closing the distance between a gun armed trooper vs a melee weapon armed Knight is a big deal.  If a sword needs to beat a gun, you have got to get to within a few yards/meters ASAP.

So, like a free standing portal gun effect from Valve Software Portal games, line of sight only, rifle range at best, and unable to pass thru things like chain link fences or glass, the Knight can create a tunnel by warping space-time, step thru, and go medieval on the gunmen on the other end.

2.  Sword and Board.  Instead of blocking ranged shots via your super sword, Knights create a half dome force field strong enough to deflect blaster shots for a short time span.  Or the knight can create a partial shield that is much stronger and lasts longer, but is obviously much smaller/heater shield size.

Because of #1, the knight doesn't need to bounce shots back to the shooter.  Just find real cover, create your teleport tunnel, and go on the offensive.

3.  It's not a lightsaber.  The sword and shield are created either purely out of energy from the Knights internal power.

Or.

The knight use different gadgets to create their sword.  Something like a dull short sword with energy beam edges to become a longsword in size when active, and a wrist bracer on the off side forearm to make a heater shield. 

4.  No mind reading.  No telekinesis.  They're prone to abuse to solve all situations.  You need to work for your info, and line of sight teleporting is powerful enough. 

Stuff like that.

Also, don't worry about the rules or game system.  In truth, I haven't set my heart on any game system at this point.  I've got plenty to choose from when I do.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 12, 2024, 05:48:04 PMI want to RP in an alternate reality/home brewed setting that is clearly meant to be like Star Wars, but distinct enough that it could be published one day (not likely, but let's pretend). 

What I want are ideas for how to portray Knights of <insert sci-fi name> and the powers they could have.

I'll go first, as it was my idea after all.  I'll also add that I'm not sold on my own ideas, and could drastically change what I'm looking for.

1.  Teleportation via a "tunnel".  Or, rather warping space.  My thinking is in the future of space warfare, closing the distance between a gun armed trooper vs a melee weapon armed Knight is a big deal.  If a sword needs to beat a gun, you have got to get to within a few yards/meters ASAP.

So, like a free standing portal gun effect from Valve Software Portal games, line of sight only, rifle range at best, and unable to pass thru things like chain link fences or glass, the Knight can create a tunnel by warping space-time, step thru, and go medieval on the gunmen on the other end.

2.  Sword and Board.  Instead of blocking ranged shots via your super sword, Knights create a half dome force field strong enough to deflect blaster shots for a short time span.  Or the knight can create a partial shield that is much stronger and lasts longer, but is obviously much smaller/heater shield size.

Because of #1, the knight doesn't need to bounce shots back to the shooter.  Just find real cover, create your teleport tunnel, and go on the offensive.

3.  It's not a lightsaber.  The sword and shield are created either purely out of energy from the Knights internal power.

Or.

The knight use different gadgets to create their sword.  Something like a dull short sword with energy beam edges to become a longsword in size when active, and a wrist bracer on the off side forearm to make a heater shield. 

4.  No mind reading.  No telekinesis.  They're prone to abuse to solve all situations.  You need to work for your info, and line of sight teleporting is powerful enough. 

Stuff like that.

Also, don't worry about the rules or game system.  In truth, I haven't set my heart on any game system at this point.  I've got plenty to choose from when I do.

How much are you willing to piss everybody off?

Instead of "Knight" call it Templar or Priest.

The sword is a part of their soul/spirit channeled, it can also become a shield.

No teleportation (for the same reason you don't want mindreading or telekinesis).

QuoteHow much are you willing to piss everybody off?

Instead of "Knight" call it Templar or Priest.

The sword is a part of their soul/spirit channeled, it can also become a shield.

No teleportation (for the same reason you don't want mindreading or telekinesis).

I'm pretty much up for anything.  I don't hold Star Wars on some pillar of worship as a setting that MUST be exactly the way it was in the three "real" movies of ANH, ESB, and RotJ. 

My group is tiny, or I may even just play it solo.  So, skys the limit.

I'm curious why you don't like the short ranged warping?  Like I said, sword fighting in a world of guns seems terrible.  The sword weilder needs some kind help.  That's why I thought flash-zooming around the battlefield to go choppy-choppy on all those bad guys was probably the best I could do.

It's that, or deflecting shots back at the gunmen.  That's a bit too much like plagiarism to me. 

Flying like Superman is another option. I'm not crazy about it, but I'm not discounting it either.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 12, 2024, 09:29:06 PM

QuoteHow much are you willing to piss everybody off?

Instead of "Knight" call it Templar or Priest.

The sword is a part of their soul/spirit channeled, it can also become a shield.

No teleportation (for the same reason you don't want mindreading or telekinesis).

I'm pretty much up for anything.  I don't hold Star Wars on some pillar of worship as a setting that MUST be exactly the way it was in the three "real" movies of ANH, ESB, and RotJ. 

My group is tiny, or I may even just play it solo.  So, skys the limit.

I'm curious why you don't like the short ranged warping?  Like I said, sword fighting in a world of guns seems terrible.  The sword weilder needs some kind help.  That's why I thought flash-zooming around the battlefield to go choppy-choppy on all those bad guys was probably the best I could do.

It's that, or deflecting shots back at the gunmen.  That's a bit too much like plagiarism to me. 

Flying like Superman is another option. I'm not crazy about it, but I'm not discounting it either.

It's ripe for abuse, just like all the force powers are.

I would give them soul shield and a burst of speed to close the distance, since we're not really making a "totally-not-Jedi".

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 12, 2024, 05:48:04 PMTeleportation via a "tunnel".  Or, rather warping space.  My thinking is in the future of space warfare, closing the distance between a gun armed trooper vs a melee weapon armed Knight is a big deal.  If a sword needs to beat a gun, you have got to get to within a few yards/meters ASAP.

Emphasis mine.

If I was building out an alternative to the Jedi, I'd build it entirely off the ability to manipulate spacetime. The reason why your not-Jedi can get away with melee is that they can warp space so that projectiles miss them. The reason they're amazing swordsmen is that they can slow down their personal time so as to have inhuman grace and reaction speeds. Blah blah quantum, blah blah relativism, et cetera. The Terry Pratchett novel Thief of Time is good inspiration for that kind of idea.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 12, 2024, 09:29:06 PMLike I said, sword fighting in a world of guns seems terrible.

Yeah every space fantasy series needs to make up an excuse for why people still use swords. Star Wars has lightsabers being able to deflect lasers (and no one using bullets); Dune has its incredibly contrived shield technology. Warhammer 40K just kind of pretends that if you're strong enough a sword is more damaging than a futuristic machine gun. IIRC in the Barsoom series they have guns but they use swords as part of an honor culture.

Personally I think that if you're going for that space fantasy/space opera vibe, its one of those things you're entitled to handwave and just pretend that a sci fi gun is no more effective than a bow in a medieval fantasy game. futuristic ray guns help there, since no one actually knows how damaging a fictional weapon should be.

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 12, 2024, 10:51:50 PMYeah every space fantasy series needs to make up an excuse for why people still use swords. Star Wars has lightsabers being able to deflect lasers (and no one using bullets); Dune has its incredibly contrived shield technology. Warhammer 40K just kind of pretends that if you're strong enough a sword is more damaging than a futuristic machine gun. IIRC in the Barsoom series they have guns but they use swords as part of an honor culture.

Personally I think that if you're going for that space fantasy/space opera vibe, its one of those things you're entitled to handwave and just pretend that a sci fi gun is no more effective than a bow in a medieval fantasy game. futuristic ray guns help there, since no one actually knows how damaging a fictional weapon should be.

It doesn't have to be complicated.  The fundamental postulate is that personal defenses beat ranged attack but not distance.  There's all kind of reasons this could happen.  Armored knight vs military pick or bow is a historical one.  A modern example is that a knife or sword will go through kevlar but a small caliber bullet won't.  For the future, I like the idea that a weapon needs a powered energy source to get through a personal shield and projectiles just aren't big enough to hold that much juice.  There are a lot of other possibilities.  Some of the fictional ones go overboard - Dune's is just weird.

A Jedi Knight, reminds me of a Lawful Good Paladin.

A Sith Lord, or Dark Jedi; reminds me of an Antipaladin.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2024, 10:19:12 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 12, 2024, 09:29:06 PM

QuoteHow much are you willing to piss everybody off?

Instead of "Knight" call it Templar or Priest.

The sword is a part of their soul/spirit channeled, it can also become a shield.

No teleportation (for the same reason you don't want mindreading or telekinesis).

I'm pretty much up for anything.  I don't hold Star Wars on some pillar of worship as a setting that MUST be exactly the way it was in the three "real" movies of ANH, ESB, and RotJ. 

My group is tiny, or I may even just play it solo.  So, skys the limit.

I'm curious why you don't like the short ranged warping?  Like I said, sword fighting in a world of guns seems terrible.  The sword weilder needs some kind help.  That's why I thought flash-zooming around the battlefield to go choppy-choppy on all those bad guys was probably the best I could do.

It's that, or deflecting shots back at the gunmen.  That's a bit too much like plagiarism to me. 

Flying like Superman is another option. I'm not crazy about it, but I'm not discounting it either.

It's ripe for abuse, just like all the force powers are.

I would give them soul shield and a burst of speed to close the distance, since we're not really making a "totally-not-Jedi".

So, "Force Speed", plus "Personal Force Deflector Feild", and an energy sword made of pure mystical energy with no physical component (so no repurposed film camera light, with a sink drain for a tip, and windshield wipers for grips).  Your sword is just energy that appears out of thin air in your hands, but cuts, and cuts deep. 

Super Speed
Force Field
Psi-Sword

I do like ForgottenF's idea that the powers are all derivatives of a strange ability to manipulate Space-Time.  That is a theme I can get behind.

QuoteMy thinking is in the future of space warfare, closing the distance between a gun armed trooper vs a melee weapon armed Knight is a big deal.  If a sword needs to beat a gun, you have got to get to within a few yards/meters ASAP.

Is this not also true if, say, a swordsman needs to beat an archer in D&D? So, whatever it is about guns in your homebrew that sets them apart from more primitive ranged weapons might suggest the apropos counter-measure. More damaging? Something something damage reduction. More range? Something something better closing speed.

Introducing restrictions on the gun is another way, if you don't need blasters to be all-powerfulish in your future. Ammunition or energy sources might be scarce or heavy. Guns themselves might be less reliable.

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 12, 2024, 10:51:50 PMPersonally I think that if you're going for that space fantasy/space opera vibe, its one of those things you're entitled to handwave and just pretend that a sci fi gun is no more effective than a bow in a medieval fantasy game. futuristic ray guns help there, since no one actually knows how damaging a fictional weapon should be.

I think it helps to know more about what you're going for more broadly in terms of genre, vibe, etc.

As ForgottenF says, one can hand-wave a lot in space fantasy. Still, it does bug me in a number of games when supposedly futuristic technology is markedly less effective than 20th century tech. Also, RPGs have a harder job with inconsistent technology than other media - because the players will try to use tech to their own advantage, and ask questions about it.

Also to weirdguy564, did you want to discuss stuff other than not-Jedi powers - like what your space knights believe in, what their organization is, and such?

I'm trying to avoid guns being nerfed when compared to current day small arms.

They're going to have reach, and they're going to have deadly shots. 

What I'm planning to use to counter them is body armor. 

I'm my setting it's the Mandalorian stand-ins who invented decent body armor, and everyone copied them, just not as well. 

However, the armor is more like Star Trek Enterprise NX-01 Polarized Hull plating, or Gundam Seed Phase Shift armor.  It's not tough because it's weird metal.   It's tough because it's weird metal that you run electric power thru, causing it to not break. 

But, you only have so much power.  You can hit it faster than it can recharge (the infamous short rest of 15 minutes), and your armor is good to go.  A lot of 1st and 3rd person shooter video games do this. 

I'm just giving it a logical reason why your armor (extra HP) regenerates between fights. 

Metal bullets bounce off, doing laughable damage.  Energy blasters do actual damage, or rather drain the charge the quickest.  Blasters are also low rate of fire, so no machine guns.  It's 2-3 shots per turn, and they're single shots each. 

I also thought the Jedi equivalent people and the Mandalorian equivalent people hate each other because Jedi make their sabers out of their superior metal, as that is the purest stuff, and only it can make a decent sword.  But the Mando's don't share.  So, give back what you stole, or there will be trouble.

I would say that the biggest way to defend against a bullet is not being where the bullet lands. 
Three ways I can imagine a "scfi/fantasy" Jedi type being able to pull this off would be 1. bending light so he isn't where he looks like he is, 2. manipulating physics forces to change the trajectory of the discharged round, and 3. being able to use the pressure waves in the air to have an ultra accurate feel for positions of things to make good judgements to not be where the bullet is coming.

For a Jedi type character class without stealing from Star Wars wholesale, I'd look at the later Dune books by Frank Herbert.  There was one character that had the ability to overclock his mind briefly so that he was able to process information to such a degree that he looked like he had super human powers of prediction and perception.  There was also more than one character that could accelerate both sensed and physical speed to blistering rates that he could move faster than others could perceive.  In both cases, it came with the down side of consuming massive energy and the practitioner needed to eat massive amounts of calories to not starve to death.

My personal idea for a cool "power" come in the form of simply being able to "see" the four forces of physics; magnetism, gravity, strong force, and weak force.  If the PC can see flux fields and gravitational waves, then they could simply take advantage of them and appear to be mystical. 

Any of these approaches would fit the play style with out being too overpowered or nerfing other techs but still allow the PCs to overcome guns and look like wizards to those not in the know.

  The cyber knight from rifts has all the things you looking for in its iteration in Savage Worlds, except for the teleportation angle, however the knight has an ability to make tech function poorly when used against him, making it harder to hit him with high tech firearms.  There is also a blade conjured from mental energy, as well as a shield, they also have access to psi powers (that are self only powers) that can buff their weapon, their damage resistance (force field) as well as a power to deflect attacks (which stacks with their tech stifling ability).  This combined with pretty decent cyber armor from the get go makes them able to close gaps and not get shot to pieces in encounters.  They of course also have the ability to use a laser rifle themselves...which is always nice.

  To emulate this in the rules you want to use I guess would be the question.  If its more an old school D20 system allowing contested rolls or saving throws against ranged attacks is probably the easiest way to emulate the hard to hit portion, this can simulate a deflection/dodge/or precognition driven parry of some sort.  If you are going to have DR along with some to hit roll that is easy, if not an adjusted AC against attacks (like a force field that emulate Dune where it affects high energy and high speed kinetic attacks, but not so much against slower kinetic attacks).   

  Its your setting so if you want to teleport I think that would be fine.  If you wanted something more grounded, a jump pack or antigravitation belt would be a good way to get a swordsman quickly among the ranks of riflemen.  I would probably just make my "not jedi" pretty rare and have plenty of encounters where ranged weapons show again and again how deadly they can be.  This will make the "not jedi" certainly seem much cooler when making the scene, and as long as his talents can be overwhelmed by enough volleys/surprise attacks/hard counters like a forcefield or the like he doesnt become the answer to every problem in combat.

Back in the 1990s, I used to write Star Wars fan fiction and run the D6 version of the RPG. Thanks to a combination of the new movies sucking, the EU dying, and WEG going under, I decided to create my own knock off setting and revise my campaign and fan fiction.

What I did was set it on a futuristic Earth ruled by a Caliphate, and my version of the Jedi were Magi. Stormtroopers were Janissaries (still clones), Moffs where Khans. There were rebels (The Resistance, which got used by Disney later on) but overall it was somewhat nuanced, the Caliphate wasn't necessarily evil, nor the Resistance good. I was going for a Sinbad (via Ray Harryhausen) in Space vibe.

Anyway, 9/11 pretty much killed it and while of late I've thought of dusting it off and publishing it as a setting using the D6 rules it would probably have a bad reception for cultural appropriation or something or other.

But in my setting, firearms weren't around because they were banned. One of the things that a totalitarian government can do, since it controls industry as well. And while guns are relatively easy to make, smokeless powder is not, AFAIK. Blasters (like in Star Wars) were permitted because they were relatively slow firing and seemingly not all that deadly, either.

My not Jedi were essentially like Neo from The Matrix (which had just come out in that time frame). They could alter reality slightly, like jump really high, brush aside bullets (or blasters) if they were paying attention without a light saber (as Darth Vader does in ESB). Mine did not have telepathy but did have a form of mind control like in Star Wars, it was how the Caliphate came into existence by convincing various religious leaders to obey the original caliph. But basically I just used the force rules from the D6 RPG, just calling them psychic powers.