In Nu-D&D You Will Eat the Diversity Foods

M2A0 · September 13, 2024, 11:00:16 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 13, 2024, 10:28:27 AM
Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 09:23:53 AMHere is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

Can you explain to me what the Circle of the Sea druid is supposed to be (aside from "utterly terrifying" and "Joker-adjacent")?
Apparently it's a Triton. Which A) I had no idea was even playable and B) WHy the fuck would they be PURPLE skinned? Blue/green (or a mix thereof) would make sense. But PURPLE?

Triton isn't a species in the PHB.

Nobleshield · September 13, 2024, 11:13:47 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 11:00:16 AM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 13, 2024, 10:28:27 AM
Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 09:23:53 AMHere is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

Can you explain to me what the Circle of the Sea druid is supposed to be (aside from "utterly terrifying" and "Joker-adjacent")?
Apparently it's a Triton. Which A) I had no idea was even playable and B) WHy the fuck would they be PURPLE skinned? Blue/green (or a mix thereof) would make sense. But PURPLE?

Triton isn't a species in the PHB.

That's what I thought too. But apparently, someone said that's what it was, and used the "it's been playable for a decade, do you even play D&D?" comeback to me questioning it.

But yeah whatever it is, I'd rather have the gay dwarf bakers and the JonBenet Ramsey gnome or halfling (the wild magic sorcerer IIRC) than that thing.

Nobleshield · September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PM

Also, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

So it looks like they basically contracted out to whatever random online artists and person on deviantART to do art, explaining why none of it looks cohesive

RPGPundit · September 13, 2024, 05:39:53 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PMAlso, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

So it looks like they basically contracted out to whatever random online artists and person on deviantART to do art, explaining why none of it looks cohesive

paying a lot of nobodies pennies is cheaper than paying a couple of great artists to do great art.

Also, it's plausible deniability for the use of AI.

jhkim · September 13, 2024, 05:58:18 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PMAlso, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

The 2014 Player's Handbook had these credits and the number of people listed.

Art Directors: 6
Graphic Designers: 3
Cover Illustration: 1
Interior Illustrators: 62

Nobleshield · September 13, 2024, 06:09:14 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 13, 2024, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PMAlso, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

The 2014 Player's Handbook had these credits and the number of people listed.

Art Directors: 6
Graphic Designers: 3
Cover Illustration: 1
Interior Illustrators: 62

The 2024 one looked like it had WAY more interior illustrators than the 2014 one (I checked that, plus Pathfinder, plus Tales of the Valiant). They all had like a fraction of the list the 2024 PHB had. Which probably explains why none of the art for 2024 looks cohesive or like it's similar art (compare to Pathfinder which has a visual style that all the artwork has)

yosemitemike · September 13, 2024, 06:43:22 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMD&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

That hasn't been true for decades. D&D was expanded way beyond pseudo-Medieval Europe fantasy decades ago. Al-Qadim, Maztica, Kara-tur, Spelljammer and Planescape all came out 30+ years ago.

jhkim · September 13, 2024, 07:22:26 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on September 13, 2024, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMD&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

That hasn't been true for decades. D&D was expanded way beyond pseudo-Medieval Europe fantasy decades ago. Al-Qadim, Maztica, Kara-tur, Spelljammer and Planescape all came out 30+ years ago.

Yeah. And even before new settings, AD&D1 and World of Greyhawk were intentionally broad. From the original 1980 Greyhawk gazeteer:

Deities & Demigods included lots of non-European pantheons. Even the Player's Handbook cleric spells started with this:

European history and myth were a central inspiration, but it was always intended to include wider influences.

HappyDaze · September 13, 2024, 07:29:09 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 13, 2024, 08:08:48 AMHappyDaze,

Quote from: blackstone on September 12, 2024, 02:05:57 PMNo it doesn't impact the way you play, as long as you keep play among people who are friends you can trust. The problem is WoTC and others who adhere to DEI and political correctness is recreating the TTRPG community in their own image. They are making DEI and political correctness a part of their games.They are purposefully trying to weave DEI and political correctness into gamer IDENTITY.

It used to be it was just enough to say you were a gamer. Now, if you say you're a gamer in the TTRPG community, you have to adhere to DEI and political correctness, and if you don't, they don't want you playing their games. There are a few gaming companies and creators who have said as much.

For me, I could give two shits on what they think. Thank God there are other gaming companies, creators and communities who refuse to bow to their bullshit.

But that creates another problem: their adherence to DEI and political correctness doesn't create unity, but has splintered the TTRPG community, because not everyone buys into their bullshit.

Am I offended by what they put out? No. I think it's stupid, laughable, and should be ridiculed. But offended? Nope. I turned away from WoTC a long time ago, when 3E came out.

I don't know how else I can explain it.

Anyway, yes you can play and not affect the way you play, but God help you if gamers outside you circle of friends find out you don't fit into the definition of "gamer" as WoTC defines it.

If you don't understand what I've said, and it's very clear to everyone else, then I can't help you. I really want to, but you're either truly unaware of what's going on or your just trolling.

Good luck in finding an answer.

So, you're afraid others might not accept you because your idea of D&D is too fragile for tacos and sushi.

HappyDaze · September 13, 2024, 07:34:26 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 12, 2024, 08:52:43 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 03:08:23 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 12, 2024, 02:24:18 PMin what's more or less a medieval European setting
There's your problem. D&D has not been that in a long time, and now it's just making it more obvious.

I see that we've finally reach Stage 3 of woke infiltration.

Stage 1: Nobody is changing the game, you're just being paranoid.

Stage 2: That's just one change, it doesn't even affect your game.

Stage 3: That change happened a long time ago, why are you complaining about it now?

Just like clockwork.
Yeah, remember D&D before nonhumans, polytheism, planar travel, casual magic, and a whole bunch more made it not-Europe? But shit, tacos and sushi just don't fit. /s
D&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

And yes, tacos and sushi DON'T fit. That's the fucking problem. They LOOK wrong. They LOOK out of place. Pumpkins, despite not really existing in a medieval European period DON'T LOOK WRONG. I bet most people don't realize they weren't actually in Europe, because they look like they COULD be. But a fucking hamburger that looks like it came from Burger King? A hard shelled taco that looks straight from taco bell? Those draw the eye and screams "This feels wrong". Like seeing a picture of a medieval city and there's an airplane flying in the distance. It LOOKS completely out of place.

Not understand this is just stupidity or willful ignorance.

You're aware that 5e has a very non-European Monk class along with the Samurai subclass for fighters and quite a few other Asian-based things too.

As for aeroplanes, have you seen the elemental airships of Eberron? Oh, they have a train too. And that setting is totally D&D.

HappyDaze · September 13, 2024, 07:36:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 13, 2024, 05:39:53 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PMAlso, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

So it looks like they basically contracted out to whatever random online artists and person on deviantART to do art, explaining why none of it looks cohesive

paying a lot of nobodies pennies is cheaper than paying a couple of great artists to do great art.

Also, it's plausible deniability for the use of AI.

When you were listed in the orignal 5e PHB, you didn't use your real name either.

HappyDaze · September 13, 2024, 07:38:46 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on September 13, 2024, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMD&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

That hasn't been true for decades. D&D was expanded way beyond pseudo-Medieval Europe fantasy decades ago. Al-Qadim, Maztica, Kara-tur, Spelljammer and Planescape all came out 30+ years ago.

Don't forget Dark Sun. And while it's only been around for 20 years, Eberron is very much D&D too.

Nobleshield · September 13, 2024, 08:33:01 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 07:38:46 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on September 13, 2024, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMD&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

That hasn't been true for decades. D&D was expanded way beyond pseudo-Medieval Europe fantasy decades ago. Al-Qadim, Maztica, Kara-tur, Spelljammer and Planescape all came out 30+ years ago.
Don't forget Dark Sun. And while it's only been around for 20 years, Eberron is very much D&D too.

Eberron WAS basically Victorian Europe with some extra parts, more than the rest.

M2A0 · September 13, 2024, 08:36:59 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on September 13, 2024, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMD&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core. That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

That hasn't been true for decades. D&D was expanded way beyond pseudo-Medieval Europe fantasy decades ago. Al-Qadim, Maztica, Kara-tur, Spelljammer and Planescape all came out 30+ years ago.

Core rulebook D&D has been pseudo 14th century Europe right up until 2008 when 4E catapulted us into core rulebook Tieflings & Dragonborn.

WotC didn't jump the shark until it tried to compete with WoW.

M2A0 · September 13, 2024, 08:41:32 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on September 13, 2024, 05:39:53 PM
Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 05:07:40 PMAlso, I was able to take a look at the new player's handbook and they have about at least 70 people listed as artists, many of which have what look like online handles instead of names. In comparison, the 2014 version has a lot but nowhere near as many.

So it looks like they basically contracted out to whatever random online artists and person on deviantART to do art, explaining why none of it looks cohesive

paying a lot of nobodies pennies is cheaper than paying a couple of great artists to do great art.

Also, it's plausible deniability for the use of AI.
When you were listed in the orignal 5e PHB, you didn't use your real name either.

To be fair, he used his professional name. Which is 100% valid. The internet is full of crazy. It's his brand.