Quote from: S'mon on September 12, 2024, 01:44:27 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 12, 2024, 01:31:33 PMTomb of Annihilation came out in 2017.

I don't claim to know the reasons, but the hobby in general has grown a lot since then.

Yes D&D grew a lot during the 2020-21 Pandemic even though product quality was already declining. My point to Pundit was that there are actually a fair number of black female players now. Most are not purple haired Wokesters IME though.

I still suspect that they are by far one of the smallest demographics in the hobby, though. Certainly more men of color, and white women, and white men.  Which means the PHB art is done as an act of idiotic virtue signalling.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 07:00:48 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 09:34:55 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 09:21:48 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 08:58:07 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:39:24 AMLike I said, there's a real possibility that there might be more depictions of "women of color" in the PHB than there are actual women-of-color playing D&D.

Does this bother you? If so, why? If not, why mention it twice?

Because it is enormously representational of the ideological agenda driving the decisions about the game. It's propaganda, meant to damage the hobby.

Does it actually impact the play of the game? If so, how?

I can agree that it's propaganda, but as far as "meant to damage the hobby" goes, can you be more specific? How does this damage the hobby? Keeping in mind that you have pointed out a strong divide between playing the game (which you have referred to as the hobby) vs. the "lifestyle" of D&D, how does this impact playing the game?

To begin with, it suggests that the purpose of RPGs is to teach leftist indoctrination. The more people who believe this, the more damage to the hobby.

The other side of that is, the more people that believe your take on it, the more damage to the hobby. I'm still not seeing how that impacts those actually playing the game.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 05:11:44 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2024, 04:57:54 PManyhow looks like Erikrautha has your measure.

You mean the guy that needs a blind squirrel to help him find his own dick?

So, having a dick big enough that a blind squirrel can find it is an insult?  You sure?  Besides, I don't need the squirrel,  your mom knows exactly where to find it...

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 12, 2024, 02:24:18 PMin what's more or less a medieval European setting

There's your problem. D&D has not been that in a long time, and now it's just making it more obvious.

I see that we've finally reach Stage 3 of woke infiltration.

Stage 1: Nobody is changing the game, you're just being paranoid.

Stage 2: That's just one change, it doesn't even affect your game.

Stage 3: That change happened a long time ago, why are you complaining about it now?


Just like clockwork.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 12, 2024, 08:52:43 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 12, 2024, 02:24:18 PMin what's more or less a medieval European setting

There's your problem. D&D has not been that in a long time, and now it's just making it more obvious.

I see that we've finally reach Stage 3 of woke infiltration.

Stage 1: Nobody is changing the game, you're just being paranoid.

Stage 2: That's just one change, it doesn't even affect your game.

Stage 3: That change happened a long time ago, why are you complaining about it now?


Just like clockwork.

Yeah, remember D&D before nonhumans, polytheism, planar travel, casual magic, and a whole bunch more made it not-Europe? But shit, tacos and sushi just don't fit. /s

HappyDaze,

Quote from: blackstone on September 12, 2024, 02:05:57 PMNo it doesn't impact the way you play, as long as you keep play among people who are friends you can trust. The problem is WoTC and others who adhere to DEI and political correctness is recreating the TTRPG community in their own image. They are making DEI and political correctness a part of their games.They are purposefully trying to weave DEI and political correctness into gamer IDENTITY.

It used to be it was just enough to say you were a gamer. Now, if you say you're a gamer in the TTRPG community, you have to adhere to DEI and political correctness, and if you don't, they don't want you playing their games. There are a few gaming companies and creators who have said as much.

For me, I could give two shits on what they think. Thank God there are other gaming companies, creators and communities who refuse to bow to their bullshit.

But that creates another problem: their adherence to DEI and political correctness doesn't create unity, but has splintered the TTRPG community, because not everyone buys into their bullshit.

Am I offended by what they put out? No. I think it's stupid, laughable, and should be ridiculed. But offended? Nope. I turned away from WoTC a long time ago, when 3E came out.

I don't know how else I can explain it.

Anyway, yes you can play and not affect the way you play, but God help you if gamers outside you circle of friends find out you don't fit into the definition of "gamer" as WoTC defines it.

If you don't understand what I've said, and it's very clear to everyone else, then I can't help you. I really want to, but you're either truly unaware of what's going on or your just trolling.

Good luck in finding an answer.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 06:27:59 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 12, 2024, 08:52:43 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 12, 2024, 02:24:18 PMin what's more or less a medieval European setting

There's your problem. D&D has not been that in a long time, and now it's just making it more obvious.

I see that we've finally reach Stage 3 of woke infiltration.

Stage 1: Nobody is changing the game, you're just being paranoid.

Stage 2: That's just one change, it doesn't even affect your game.

Stage 3: That change happened a long time ago, why are you complaining about it now?


Just like clockwork.

Yeah, remember D&D before nonhumans, polytheism, planar travel, casual magic, and a whole bunch more made it not-Europe? But shit, tacos and sushi just don't fit. /s

D&D has always assumed a somewhat medieval European society as its core.  That's been stated in every book since the beginning.

And yes, tacos and sushi DON'T fit.  That's the fucking problem.  They LOOK wrong.  They LOOK out of place.  Pumpkins, despite not really existing in a medieval European period DON'T LOOK WRONG.  I bet most people don't realize they weren't actually in Europe, because they look like they COULD be.  But a fucking hamburger that looks like it came from Burger King?  A hard shelled taco that looks straight from taco bell?  Those draw the eye and screams "This feels wrong".  Like seeing a picture of a medieval city and there's an airplane flying in the distance.  It LOOKS completely out of place.

Not understand this is just stupidity or willful ignorance.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 06:27:59 AMYeah, remember D&D before nonhumans, polytheism, planar travel, casual magic, and a whole bunch more made it not-Europe? But shit, tacos and sushi just don't fit. /s

Now that's just a stupid statement, and let me break it down for you WHY it's stupid:

-nonhumans: Elves, dwarves, gnomes, goblins, etc. have been a part of European legends and lore since time immeasurable.

-polytheism: there were still pagan/polytheistic cultures in Medieval Europe as late as the 14th Century. See the Baltic Crusades and the creation of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for details.

- planar travel, casual magic: would be considered witchcraft by the Church. In the Medieval period going into the Renaissance, such activities were taken up my many scholars, alchemists, and even some in the clergy. Roger Bacon is probably one of the more famous ones. He was a Franciscan friar, alchemist, and philosopher.

now what was that about "nonhumans, polytheism, planar travel, casual magic, and a whole bunch more made it not-Europe" again?

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMA hard shelled taco that looks straight from taco bell?

True..but now I want Taco Bell for lunch.

Quote from: blackstone on September 13, 2024, 08:38:38 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 13, 2024, 08:09:37 AMA hard shelled taco that looks straight from taco bell?

True..but now I want Taco Bell for lunch.

Me too

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 07:05:34 PM

Quote from: S'mon on September 12, 2024, 01:44:27 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 12, 2024, 01:31:33 PMTomb of Annihilation came out in 2017.

I don't claim to know the reasons, but the hobby in general has grown a lot since then.

Yes D&D grew a lot during the 2020-21 Pandemic even though product quality was already declining. My point to Pundit was that there are actually a fair number of black female players now. Most are not purple haired Wokesters IME though.

I still suspect that they are by far one of the smallest demographics in the hobby, though. Certainly more men of color, and white women, and white men.  Which means the PHB art is done as an act of idiotic virtue signalling.

There are 60 total pieces of art that really come into play for this discussion, the 12 classes and the 48 subclasses. There is a noticeable lack of black men (0), and a high inclusion of black women (5), out of those 60 pictures. There are (0) male halflings, but (3) female. Most, but not all of the dwarves, elves, and halflings are demi-humans of color. Humanity is represented by (5) males and (9) females.

Here is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

Female Goliath
Male Human (Nordic)
Female Halfling
Female Drow
Male White Dragonborn

Male Tiefling
Male Human (Persian?)
Female High Elf
Female Human (African American)
Female Red Dragonborn

Female Dwarf
Male Human (Mediterranean?)
Female High Elf
Female Halfling
Female Tiefling

Male Human (Celtic)
Female Forest Gnome
Male Goliath
Male Aasimar?
Female Human (Greek?)

Male Dwarf
Male Green Dragonborn
Female Human (West/Central Africa)
Male High Elf
Female Human? (Goliath?) (Haitian?)

White Dragonborn gender unknown
Male Drow
Male Rock Gnome
Female Orc
Female Human (Chinese)

Female Orc
Female Human (Zulu)
Male Tiefling
Male Wood Elf
Male Blue Dragonborn

Male Wood Elf
Female Aasimar
Male Orc
Female Dwarf
Female Human (East African)

Female Halfling
Male Rock Gnome
Male Green Dragonborn
Human Male - generic Caucasian
Human Female - generic Caucasian

Female Tiefling
Male Blue Dragonborn
Male Dwarf
Male Aasimar
Female Halfling

Male Rock Gnome
Female High Elf
Male Dwarf
Male Tiefling
Female Drow

Female Human (Upper Nile/Sudan)
Male Dwarf
Female Tiefling
Male High Elf
Female Rock Gnome

It still really bugs me that they decided to have all demihumans have the same ethnic diversity as humans.  really reinforces the "everyone is just a funny looking human" thing that D&D tried so hard to get away from, because god forbid elves and dwarfs not have Sub-Saharan African or distinctly asian or Hispanic features when they don't have those cultures in the first place.

Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 09:23:53 AMHere is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

  Can you explain to me what the Circle of the Sea druid is supposed to be (aside from "utterly terrifying" and "Joker-adjacent")?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 13, 2024, 10:28:27 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 09:23:53 AMHere is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

  Can you explain to me what the Circle of the Sea druid is supposed to be (aside from "utterly terrifying" and "Joker-adjacent")?

Apparently it's a Triton.  Which A) I had no idea was even playable and B) WHy the fuck would they be PURPLE skinned?  Blue/green (or a mix thereof) would make sense.  But PURPLE?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 13, 2024, 10:28:27 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on September 13, 2024, 09:23:53 AMHere is a full breakdown, since most people are just repeating shit they heard on the internet. I'm putting them in bunches of 5 by class in order for ease of reading. It's obvious that the DEI consultants where heavily involved in this section. It's the opposite of the Redgar problem.

  Can you explain to me what the Circle of the Sea druid is supposed to be (aside from "utterly terrifying" and "Joker-adjacent")?

I think it's an Aasimar. Whatever it is, it's horrifying.