Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 09, 2024, 09:31:27 AMI definitely think that universal systems are underutilized and more valuable than making a new system for every new game. D20 Modern in the 2000s was the de facto universal game for everything that wasn't D&D. Despite its flaws I think it did very well at bringing players together and introducing them to new genres and premises they would otherwise never think of playing.

Nowadays everything is so fractured. If I want to play something like d20 modern's Thunderball Rally (1970s racing-themed action movies with animal sidekicks) or Hijinx (hanna barbera cartoons where meddling kids and their animal sidekick solve mysteries), then the only option I found thus far was Spirit of '77.

As something like Hijinx shows, it's not inordinately difficult to repurpose a system initially designed to represent the comically macho machine gun slaughter scene in Predator to instead handle child-friendly slapstick like that seen in Scooby Doo.

D20 Modern had it's time, but GURPs already existed, with much more material to emulate different genres than d20 ever had, also better researched.

GURPS is also a better universal system than D20 ever was, and despite it not receiving a new world/source book since forever it's still around. I hate it but it's there.

IMHO (and I have said so before IIRC) HERO had the right idea when they were publishing whole games a la Star/Pulp/Fantasy/Etc Hero, BECAUSE you can play those without having to think about how to build everything from scratch or what to include/exclude. Instead they were stupid and went the way of GURPS, last edition is two fucking bricks and you need to make all the work to play anything, which is why those universal systems never grew beyond their fanatical supporters to reach the masses.

Thanks anyway.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 09, 2024, 12:06:45 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 09, 2024, 09:31:27 AMI definitely think that universal systems are underutilized and more valuable than making a new system for every new game. D20 Modern in the 2000s was the de facto universal game for everything that wasn't D&D. Despite its flaws I think it did very well at bringing players together and introducing them to new genres and premises they would otherwise never think of playing.

D20 Modern had it's time, but GURPs already existed, with much more material to emulate different genres than d20 ever had, also better researched.

GURPS is also a better universal system than D20 ever was, and despite it not receiving a new world/source book since forever it's still around. I hate it but it's there.

Yeah. Even aside from judgement of quality -- GURPS was still thriving in the early 2000s. It came out with its 4th edition in 2004, and was publishing lots of sourcebooks revamped for GURPS4E as well as standalone RPGs under the Powered-by-GURPS standalone line (like the Discworld RPG and Prime Directive). It was the go-to universal system in the early 2000s, not D20 Modern.

And lots of people still play GURPS today. There's no reason to ignore either D20 Modern or GURPS just because there aren't new books being published right now. I suspect there's still a bigger GURPS community today than there is a Spirit of '77 community.

The Amber Diceless RPG still has a thriving community even though it has been dead for nearly thirty years. I just got player assignment for AmberCon Northwest, which is a terrific game convention in Portland.

I'd be interested in a campaign of CJ Carella's Witchcraft. I've always wanted to try it.

Quote from: jhkim on September 09, 2024, 12:45:47 PMAnd lots of people still play GURPS today. There's no reason to ignore either D20 Modern or GURPS just because there aren't new books being published right now. I suspect there's still a bigger GURPS community today than there is a Spirit of '77 community.

There are still new books being published. They are digital releases except for Gaming Ballistics 3PP releases.

https://warehouse23.com/collections/new?filter.p.m.product.format=Digital+%28PDF%29&filter.p.m.products.category=Roleplaying+Games&filter.p.m.products.edition=GURPS+Fourth+Edition

https://gamingballistic.com/

Quote from: estar on September 09, 2024, 03:49:31 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 09, 2024, 12:45:47 PMAnd lots of people still play GURPS today. There's no reason to ignore either D20 Modern or GURPS just because there aren't new books being published right now. I suspect there's still a bigger GURPS community today than there is a Spirit of '77 community.

There are still new books being published. They are digital releases except for Gaming Ballistics 3PP releases.

https://warehouse23.com/collections/new?filter.p.m.product.format=Digital+%28PDF%29&filter.p.m.products.category=Roleplaying+Games&filter.p.m.products.edition=GURPS+Fourth+Edition

https://gamingballistic.com/

Sorry, my bad. All the more reason to say that GURPS is still active, and there's no reason not to play it.

Quote from: jhkim on September 09, 2024, 05:19:03 PM

Quote from: estar on September 09, 2024, 03:49:31 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 09, 2024, 12:45:47 PMAnd lots of people still play GURPS today. There's no reason to ignore either D20 Modern or GURPS just because there aren't new books being published right now. I suspect there's still a bigger GURPS community today than there is a Spirit of '77 community.

There are still new books being published. They are digital releases except for Gaming Ballistics 3PP releases.

https://warehouse23.com/collections/new?filter.p.m.product.format=Digital+%28PDF%29&filter.p.m.products.category=Roleplaying+Games&filter.p.m.products.edition=GURPS+Fourth+Edition

https://gamingballistic.com/

Sorry, my bad. All the more reason to say that GURPS is still active, and there's no reason not to play it.

Except it being a IMHO shitty system

I do consult GURPS books for research

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 09, 2024, 06:05:21 PMI do consult GURPS books for research

IMHO the only use GURPS has.

Almost nothing ever actually goes away in the ttrpg market.  World of Synnibarr and SLA Industries have both been around for about 30 years now.  Neither one of them ever found any real popularity.  They are both still here.  World of Synnibarr got a new edition in 2018.  SLA Industries was publishing new material as recently as last year.  A lot of these are things people do as a hobby or passion projects.  Commercial success or the lack of it doesn't really matter that much.  The normal process of creative destruction just doesn't happen.     

Quote from: yosemitemike on September 09, 2024, 11:48:19 PMAlmost nothing ever actually goes away in the ttrpg market.  World of Synnibarr and SLA Industries have both been around for about 30 years now.  Neither one of them ever found any real popularity.  They are both still here.  World of Synnibarr got a new edition in 2018.  SLA Industries was publishing new material as recently as last year.  A lot of these are things people do as a hobby or passion projects.  Commercial success or the lack of it doesn't really matter that much.  The normal process of creative destruction just doesn't happen.     

I've always had a thing for Earthdawn...despite how it's never really been all that popular for many reasons.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 09, 2024, 11:58:51 PMI've always had a thing for Earthdawn...despite how it's never really been all that popular for many reasons.

Earthdawn is another one that never really found much popularity but is still with us anyway.  The 4th edition came out in 2015 and DTRPG has 30 products for it available right now. 

I'm a GURPS fan but back in the day I don't think GURPS ever surpassed Palladium in sales.  So I guess the question would be how you want to determine the top universal system.  Is it sales?  Number of groups playing?  What you were buying and wished you were playing at the time?  I'm thinking sales is probably the most reliable metric but I don't know how d20 Modern compared to Palladium over specific years.

Personally first edition GURPS was generally tighter and better thought out than third and fourth but fourth fixed things that didn't work in the wider context of the bigger game.  All third edition managed to do is make ranged combat unplayable.

Quote from: yosemitemike on September 09, 2024, 11:48:19 PMAlmost nothing ever actually goes away in the ttrpg market.  World of Synnibarr and SLA Industries have both been around for about 30 years now.  Neither one of them ever found any real popularity.  They are both still here.  World of Synnibarr got a new edition in 2018.  SLA Industries was publishing new material as recently as last year.  A lot of these are things people do as a hobby or passion projects.  Commercial success or the lack of it doesn't really matter that much.  The normal process of creative destruction just doesn't happen.     

Passions projects are the lucky ones. They're not subject to the whims of corpos.

The customer base is drawn to high production values and pretty pictures.  The rule of cool dominates all things with its oversized swords and ridiculously wide stances.  The content is secondary, the writer is tertiary.  Anyone who cares enough to know who Gary Gygax and JRR Tolkien were is some kind of far right radical.