Quote from: Spinachcat on September 01, 2024, 02:16:31 AMThere's an old saying: if you want to make a million in RPGs, start with 2 million.

Venger chose create his own niche within a niche. That's awesome, but niches will always have less appeal and thus less customers.

I know guys in metal cover bands. That's already a niche audience and when your tribute band is a based on a lesser known band from decades ago, then your audience is now micro.

And that's okay. Not everything in life has to be about making money. Sometimes it's cool to create something just because YOU want to do it.

But combine selling micro-niche products with a global recession that's only going to get much worse? Then you will be lucky to make be'er money.

That said, Venger's The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence is my favorite setting I've found in the last two decades. If you're looking for badass gonzo with minimal sleaze, this is your book.

https://www.amazon.com/Islands-Purple-Haunted-Putrescence-Venger-Satanis/dp/1500121592/ref=sr_1_11?

If I have any advice for Venger, it's to expand FAR beyond RPGs because his Cha'alt, Alpha Blue and other IPs have audiences unknown in other forms - comic books, novels, etc.

I truly believe his energies would be FAR better spent creating for a MUCH larger audience than dice chuckers. 

The exact same people who would NEVER have weird sex at their game table would be 100% fine buying and reading Venger novels. Why? It's private, not pubic, I mean public.

Quote from: Opaopajr on September 01, 2024, 04:27:17 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on September 01, 2024, 02:16:31 AM[...]
If I have any advice for Venger, it's to expand FAR beyond RPGs because his Cha'alt, Alpha Blue and other IPs have audiences unknown in other forms - comic books, novels, etc.

I truly believe his energies would be FAR better spent creating for a MUCH larger audience than dice chuckers. 

The exact same people who would NEVER have weird sex at their game table would be 100% fine buying and reading Venger novels. Why? It's private, not pubic, I mean public.

Totally agree. In fact, just being an overseeing editorial seal of approval for slash fiction in his world would be a way more profitable side business in published erotica. Granted it'd require reading a lot of kinky boots smut, which I am sure would get exhausting, and could garner a delightfully bizarre sub-culture of its own like Gor. But nothing ventured, nothing gained!

PS: A Chuck Tingle guest author project would be such a "get" for his world. Chuck Tingle already has his own RPG, so it'd be exciting if he could branch out into other indie smutty vistas. But it'd depend upon Chuck's doctorial Tae Kwon Do responsibilities.

You guys think there's a market for that?  If you know of a resource (like a web page with some details on getting started), let me know.  I'll look into it, and then... maybe?

Quote from: S'mon on September 06, 2024, 04:34:11 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 06, 2024, 03:04:12 AMI just glanced at the stuff and it all seemed what we in Australia call "try-hard" - meaning someone who is visibly trying hard to present themselves as more competent than they are, in an embarassing way.

I think Venger could do good stuff if he was working with someone else who could add some discipline to his creativity. I was just looking back over Revelry in Torth (no keyed maps in a supposed 'mini sandbox') & Isles of Purple Haunted Putrescence, I want to be able to use them, but they are just too scattershot. I was reminded of trying to run Liberation of the Demon Slayer, & discovering that only the first dungeon level had a key matching the map. Why did it go out to PoD like that? With Isles, I used it not long ago for an alternate dimension. My players kept trying to make sense of the nonsensical setting (first random encounter was 'spaceship flies overhead & explodes') - it rapidly got frustrating for everyone. Ultimately it feels like these products aren't really designed for actual use at the table.

"Try-hard" is funny because I just don't give a fuck anymore.  And barely gave a fuck when I started.  I continue to evolve, as does The Work.  Expect more of the same... except more!

If I remember correctly, and this is going back into the dim mists of yore, Revelry in Torth was meant to be the start of a trilogy.  I don't know why I never went back to it, maybe there wasn't enough interest from audiences at the time.  But years later, I merged Torth and the random place the Purple Islands is set, and made Cha'alt.  There's no reason at all why you couldn't combine some or all of them together, just need to grow a pair big enough to make some executive decisions about your campaign setting.

But if I was playing in someone's "D&D" campaign, and the first thing that happens is a spaceship flies overhead and then explodes... well, I'd just about died and gone to Heaven, hoss.  You can't have gonzo and then rein it in to the point where it's not gonzo, anymore.  At that point, you're trying to serve opposing masters.  And good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson would say.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: S'mon on September 06, 2024, 04:34:11 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 06, 2024, 03:04:12 AMI just glanced at the stuff and it all seemed what we in Australia call "try-hard" - meaning someone who is visibly trying hard to present themselves as more competent than they are, in an embarassing way.

I think Venger could do good stuff if he was working with someone else who could add some discipline to his creativity. I was just looking back over Revelry in Torth (no keyed maps in a supposed 'mini sandbox') & Isles of Purple Haunted Putrescence, I want to be able to use them, but they are just too scattershot. I was reminded of trying to run Liberation of the Demon Slayer, & discovering that only the first dungeon level had a key matching the map. Why did it go out to PoD like that? With Isles, I used it not long ago for an alternate dimension. My players kept trying to make sense of the nonsensical setting (first random encounter was 'spaceship flies overhead & explodes') - it rapidly got frustrating for everyone. Ultimately it feels like these products aren't really designed for actual use at the table.

"Try-hard" is funny because I just don't give a fuck anymore.  And barely gave a fuck when I started.  I continue to evolve, as does The Work.  Expect more of the same... except more!

If I remember correctly, and this is going back into the dim mists of yore, Revelry in Torth was meant to be the start of a trilogy.  I don't know why I never went back to it, maybe there wasn't enough interest from audiences at the time.  But years later, I merged Torth and the random place the Purple Islands is set, and made Cha'alt.  There's no reason at all why you couldn't combine some or all of them together, just need to grow a pair big enough to make some executive decisions about your campaign setting.

But if I was playing in someone's "D&D" campaign, and the first thing that happens is a spaceship flies overhead and then explodes... well, I'd just about died and gone to Heaven, hoss.  You can't have gonzo and then rein it in to the point where it's not gonzo, anymore.  At that point, you're trying to serve opposing masters.  And good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson would say.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I propose a joint project with Pundit, Venger, Grim and Ryan.  Maybe even Jobe.  Inappropriate Characters style!

Hey!  Speaking of which.

Does this mean Inappropriate Characters is back on?

Quote from: S'mon on September 06, 2024, 04:34:11 AMUltimately it feels like these products aren't really designed for actual use at the table.

In my professional area of fitness, one thing you never find in the fitness guru books is some sort of tabulated data of results. The typical number of people who have done the latest and greatest shiny new workout is... none. It's the same with these RPGs, settings and adventure modules.

A long time ago S John Ross pointed out to us that obviously an authour should playtest the game with their own group, but the real test was sending it out to be played when the authour isn't there to explain things. This quickly pulls up all sorts of issues, like this or that not being well-explained, and of course gaps in the rules - if I as authour am refereeing and the players venture into some area I don't have rules for, I can divert them - and then never write the rules. I can't get away with that nonsense if I send the thing out into the wild, so to speak.

But let's face it: basically all of us who've been gaming more than a year or two have got a stack of RPGs we've never played and probably never will play. Spread this out among millions of gamers, and you've got a bunch of games that've never been played, or only be a few people for a brief campaign. But if the thing has a shiny cover and some publicity, especially if it's a licensed property, maybe it sells anyway.

Quote from: Kyle AaronI just glanced at the stuff and it all seemed what we in Australia call "try-hard" - meaning someone who is visibly trying hard to present themselves as more competent than they are, in an embarassing way.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PM"Try-hard" is funny because I just don't give a fuck anymore.  And barely gave a fuck when I started.  I continue to evolve, as does The Work.  Expect more of the same... except more!

Not giving a fuck and lack of competence are indistinguishable from a distance. They lead to the same end result.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PMBut if I was playing in someone's "D&D" campaign, and the first thing that happens is a spaceship flies overhead and then explodes... well, I'd just about died and gone to Heaven, hoss. 

The campaign has been running many years, the PCs were transported from Stonehell Dungeon by the Host of the Last Revel. So they thought the exploding spaceship must be the one they had been looting on level 8 of Stonehell, ie they'd been transported back in time...

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PMYou can't have gonzo and then rein it in to the point where it's not gonzo, anymore.  At that point, you're trying to serve opposing masters.  And good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson would say.

For me you can adventure in a gonzo setting & still have immersion, with some willing suspension of disbelief.

Quote from: Brigman on September 06, 2024, 10:44:28 PMHey!  Speaking of which.

Does this mean Inappropriate Characters is back on?

No. It still felt like the best time to end it, and Venger isn't up for it either.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 25, 2024, 11:01:10 AMIt's true that his politics were more present in his RPG products than you'd ever see in my products.  Of course, some people with very left-wing politics might not buy my games either, but as the OSR tends toward either conservatives or people who don't care about politics in any way, my games (which do not have overt modern-day political statements in them) still sell well.

I think that the smutty side of Venger's work might actually have hurt him a bit more with the OSR crowd than his politics; a lot of people who would otherwise have liked his games and probably like his current politics might have for moral reasons been turned off (pardon the pun) by the sexual content in Venger's products. That, and I can imagine some conservative and Christian OSR gamers might even have some qualms about buying a product from a guy named "Satanis".

If he makes a comeback in a few years, he might want to change his nom-de-plume to "Venger Jones" or something like that.

That's a good observation.  Something full of sex by a guy named Satanis who had a popular leftist viewpoint and used PbtA would have done a lot better.

Venger's content profile and political profile didn't match very well.

Personally, I would have preferred an unflinching S&S line with less outright comedy.

Edit:  Well, glad to see he's back.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: S'mon on September 06, 2024, 04:34:11 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 06, 2024, 03:04:12 AMI just glanced at the stuff and it all seemed what we in Australia call "try-hard" - meaning someone who is visibly trying hard to present themselves as more competent than they are, in an embarassing way.

I think Venger could do good stuff if he was working with someone else who could add some discipline to his creativity. I was just looking back over Revelry in Torth (no keyed maps in a supposed 'mini sandbox') & Isles of Purple Haunted Putrescence, I want to be able to use them, but they are just too scattershot. I was reminded of trying to run Liberation of the Demon Slayer, & discovering that only the first dungeon level had a key matching the map. Why did it go out to PoD like that? With Isles, I used it not long ago for an alternate dimension. My players kept trying to make sense of the nonsensical setting (first random encounter was 'spaceship flies overhead & explodes') - it rapidly got frustrating for everyone. Ultimately it feels like these products aren't really designed for actual use at the table.

"Try-hard" is funny because I just don't give a fuck anymore.  And barely gave a fuck when I started.  I continue to evolve, as does The Work.  Expect more of the same... except more!

If I remember correctly, and this is going back into the dim mists of yore, Revelry in Torth was meant to be the start of a trilogy.  I don't know why I never went back to it, maybe there wasn't enough interest from audiences at the time.  But years later, I merged Torth and the random place the Purple Islands is set, and made Cha'alt.  There's no reason at all why you couldn't combine some or all of them together, just need to grow a pair big enough to make some executive decisions about your campaign setting.

But if I was playing in someone's "D&D" campaign, and the first thing that happens is a spaceship flies overhead and then explodes... well, I'd just about died and gone to Heaven, hoss.  You can't have gonzo and then rein it in to the point where it's not gonzo, anymore.  At that point, you're trying to serve opposing masters.  And good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson would say.

So, what's your argument against the combat wheelchair?

I can call it gonzo and you have nothing.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 07, 2024, 12:35:55 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2024, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: S'mon on September 06, 2024, 04:34:11 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 06, 2024, 03:04:12 AMI just glanced at the stuff and it all seemed what we in Australia call "try-hard" - meaning someone who is visibly trying hard to present themselves as more competent than they are, in an embarassing way.

I think Venger could do good stuff if he was working with someone else who could add some discipline to his creativity. I was just looking back over Revelry in Torth (no keyed maps in a supposed 'mini sandbox') & Isles of Purple Haunted Putrescence, I want to be able to use them, but they are just too scattershot. I was reminded of trying to run Liberation of the Demon Slayer, & discovering that only the first dungeon level had a key matching the map. Why did it go out to PoD like that? With Isles, I used it not long ago for an alternate dimension. My players kept trying to make sense of the nonsensical setting (first random encounter was 'spaceship flies overhead & explodes') - it rapidly got frustrating for everyone. Ultimately it feels like these products aren't really designed for actual use at the table.

"Try-hard" is funny because I just don't give a fuck anymore.  And barely gave a fuck when I started.  I continue to evolve, as does The Work.  Expect more of the same... except more!

If I remember correctly, and this is going back into the dim mists of yore, Revelry in Torth was meant to be the start of a trilogy.  I don't know why I never went back to it, maybe there wasn't enough interest from audiences at the time.  But years later, I merged Torth and the random place the Purple Islands is set, and made Cha'alt.  There's no reason at all why you couldn't combine some or all of them together, just need to grow a pair big enough to make some executive decisions about your campaign setting.

But if I was playing in someone's "D&D" campaign, and the first thing that happens is a spaceship flies overhead and then explodes... well, I'd just about died and gone to Heaven, hoss.  You can't have gonzo and then rein it in to the point where it's not gonzo, anymore.  At that point, you're trying to serve opposing masters.  And good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson would say.

So, what's your argument against the combat wheelchair?

I can call it gonzo and you have nothing.

The argument about whether the chair fits or not is a thin veil to hide the real argument of how the setting should be adjusted to accommodate a particular social view point at the expense of all others.

Quote from: crkrueger on September 07, 2024, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 25, 2024, 11:01:10 AMIt's true that his politics were more present in his RPG products than you'd ever see in my products.  Of course, some people with very left-wing politics might not buy my games either, but as the OSR tends toward either conservatives or people who don't care about politics in any way, my games (which do not have overt modern-day political statements in them) still sell well.

I think that the smutty side of Venger's work might actually have hurt him a bit more with the OSR crowd than his politics; a lot of people who would otherwise have liked his games and probably like his current politics might have for moral reasons been turned off (pardon the pun) by the sexual content in Venger's products. That, and I can imagine some conservative and Christian OSR gamers might even have some qualms about buying a product from a guy named "Satanis".

If he makes a comeback in a few years, he might want to change his nom-de-plume to "Venger Jones" or something like that.

That's a good observation.  Something full of sex by a guy named Satanis who had a popular leftist viewpoint and used PbtA would have done a lot better.

Venger's content profile and political profile didn't match very well.

Personally, I would have preferred an unflinching S&S line with less outright comedy.

Edit:  Well, glad to see he's back.

Not sure that Venger's preferred style of sexual content would have gone over well on the left at all.

On the plus side, these arrived:



Super happy to read and play these!

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2024, 08:48:15 AM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on September 03, 2024, 11:13:24 PMGorgeWorld, the furry inflation fetish RPG, is currently the 28th best selling title on #DriveThruRPG. On release it was number one. It is not behind an adult filter.

The audience for niche fetishes is there. Venger's failure is a skill issue.

I'm pretty sure that its because that's apparently a fetish. Venger's smut is mostly heterosexual with big-titted sluts. And the thing is that if you're straight and not a fetishist, you don't really need that to be there in every single entertainment you do. Whereas fetishists become obsessed with their fetish. Especially furries.
Of course, the moral cost of producing this would be unbearable.

The secret around all that is the Bi- prefix. Instant seal of approval. It could be bisexual, biracial, biromantic, bicurious, bifocal, bicycle... doesn't matter, provides instant shielding. Then you can stock up on all the boobs and bottoms, with all the jiggle physics!

Sprinkle a bit of fur, scale, feathers, obesity, neuro-atypical jargon, etc. and you got yourself a loyalist army. Careful though, they can become territorial. Biracial bicurious bigamous bimbos on bicycles by the bifurcated biome, all E cup action, bouncing all the time!