Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 30, 2024, 09:15:29 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 30, 2024, 08:23:27 AMEither way, what's done is done. I hope we can move on with this and we have a mutual understanding of each other.

Thanks

Water under the bridge.  We can be Huckleberry's again.

Blaming others' success for your own lack of it is the most "soy" thing ever. Vaya con dios, Venger. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I'm not on twitter/X. Was Venger actually saying he couldn't succeed because he couldn't compete with Shadowdark, or was he just citing it as a measure of changing market landscape?

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 30, 2024, 11:26:20 AMI'm not on twitter/X. Was Venger actually saying he couldn't succeed because he couldn't compete with Shadowdark, or was he just citing it as a measure of changing market landscape?

He posted his thoughts in his blog.  It was more of the latter with alluding to the former without saying as such.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 30, 2024, 11:43:55 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 30, 2024, 11:26:20 AMI'm not on twitter/X. Was Venger actually saying he couldn't succeed because he couldn't compete with Shadowdark, or was he just citing it as a measure of changing market landscape?

He posted his thoughts in his blog.  It was more of the latter with alluding to the former without saying as such.

I don't think it's a meaningful distinction.

Venger basically whined that his stuff wasn't selling anymore because of the "Shadowdarking of our hobby" and pointed at the YouTubers, "Socialist and soy" content, and "tourists" as the causes/symptoms of the market changes. He wasn't clear about cause and effect, perhaps intentionally so. It was more of a provocative rant than a coherent analysis. Very Venger.

Of course, those YT folks have worked hard to make their channels successful and build followings. Creators like Shadowdark's author have worked hard to write and market their products, build communities, network, and leverage those connections. Just like Pundit has. As for the customers, tastes change over time and always have. If you're making a living (or supplemental income) selling your creations to the public, keeping up with what the public wants and marketing your stuff is part of the gig. The pendulum will swing back to darker/more adult stuff in reaction to the current "hope punk" trend. Give it a couple years and there will a new "Book of Vile Darkness" type product hit it big. It's inevitable.

Venger's post was either him being a crybaby or a troll (or both!) Either way, I have sympathy fans of Venger's work who may be bummed they won't be getting more, but none for him.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 30, 2024, 11:43:55 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 30, 2024, 11:26:20 AMI'm not on twitter/X. Was Venger actually saying he couldn't succeed because he couldn't compete with Shadowdark, or was he just citing it as a measure of changing market landscape?

He posted his thoughts in his blog.  It was more of the latter with alluding to the former without saying as such.

Here's the quote and the link. It's a matter of interpretation what he meant to say about Shadowdark (bolded below).

Quote from: Venger SatanisSure, I could point a tentacle at our shitty economy, "the OSR is dying!" folks, politics / culture war stuff (which may or may not have led to online retailers and crowdfunding sites censoring and stealth-banning via the almighty algorithm), the current necessity of slick marketing campaigns anointed by establishment approved YouTubers - the ShadowDarking of our hobby, various forces and personalities and groups overinflating RPG popularity to the point where everything is geared towards Lowest Common Denominator tourists and infused with Socialism and soy, WotC skull-fisting the b'jeezus out of D&D like Disney has done with Star Wars, or my own stubborn / arrogant notion that I make what I want the way I want and that's just how it is. 

In the end, I don't care what the primary, secondary, or tertiary causes were.  The rise and fall of Venger Satanis was probably inevitable, nay essential. Circle of life.  Nature is healing.  The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and I have burned so very, very brightly.  Based and zoth-pilled.

https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2024/08/end-of-aeon.html

I think there is little or nothing said about shadowdark that doesn't apply 100 fold in the case of mork borg. Shadowdark is just the latest hotness that triggers that same "wtf is this bullshit" reaction and is likely far less egregious to my eye.

Quote from: jhkim on August 30, 2024, 02:03:55 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 30, 2024, 11:43:55 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 30, 2024, 11:26:20 AMI'm not on twitter/X. Was Venger actually saying he couldn't succeed because he couldn't compete with Shadowdark, or was he just citing it as a measure of changing market landscape?

He posted his thoughts in his blog.  It was more of the latter with alluding to the former without saying as such.

Here's the quote and the link. It's a matter of interpretation what he meant to say about Shadowdark (bolded below).

Quote from: Venger SatanisSure, I could point a tentacle at our shitty economy, "the OSR is dying!" folks, politics / culture war stuff (which may or may not have led to online retailers and crowdfunding sites censoring and stealth-banning via the almighty algorithm), the current necessity of slick marketing campaigns anointed by establishment approved YouTubers - the ShadowDarking of our hobby, various forces and personalities and groups overinflating RPG popularity to the point where everything is geared towards Lowest Common Denominator tourists and infused with Socialism and soy, WotC skull-fisting the b'jeezus out of D&D like Disney has done with Star Wars, or my own stubborn / arrogant notion that I make what I want the way I want and that's just how it is. 

In the end, I don't care what the primary, secondary, or tertiary causes were.  The rise and fall of Venger Satanis was probably inevitable, nay essential. Circle of life.  Nature is healing.  The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and I have burned so very, very brightly.  Based and zoth-pilled.

https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2024/08/end-of-aeon.html

I'm pretty sure he was just saying that you need a slick social media marketing campaign with paid-off influencers to succeed in a big way nowadays in RPGs, and that was how Shadowdark did it, and presumably that's not something he wants to do.   I don't read it as him throwing any shade on Shadowdark in particular.

Quote from: Festus on August 30, 2024, 10:51:11 AMBlaming others' success for your own lack of it is the most "soy" thing ever. Vaya con dios, Venger. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

One of my friends over on Reddit was on a fiction writing sub and periodically there is a thread posted bitching about all the mean ol series that make is sooooooooo harrrrrrd for short stories to be noticed and these series need to be gotten rid of. Because that will magically make their own stories popular.

Or equally inane threads bitching about how series stories get alot of upvotes and thus flood out the top list and how these series need to be gotten rid of. Because these morons cant be dicked to press the NEW button. Jesus wept.

Now apparently there was a recent thread with several fuckwits proclaiming they put on ignore anyone posting series. Jesus wept pt 2.

In this case I do not think Venger is complaining about there being too much competition. Theres practically none. I think I can count the lurid fiction themed RPGs on like one hand. And some of those have not bee in print for a decade or two. Or dropped the lurid part when the current wave of moral guardians rose again.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2024, 11:40:34 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMDon't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

Nope.

Because "I don't want to buy X because Y" is not censorship.

If it were you need to get yourself to a Christian bookstore and start buying from them or you are censoring Christian booksellers.

No one has called for Venger to be shut down. People have simply explained why they had no desire for his products. People are allowed to not want to buy things for any reason.

Your sanctimonious screaming at straw men says more about you (and your presumably bad experiences with the Satanic Panic crowd in the past) than it does about the people you're trying to associate with censorship for their exercise of prudential judgment.

Personally, I've never looked at his products because anyone who markets himself using the name of the villain from the D&D cartoon and plays into all the edgelord tropes (including claiming to be the son of Satan) sounds like they're trying too hard for attention because they don't think their products are good enough to merit attention on their own.

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

While I understand and appreciate Blackstone's rush to clear my name, the fact is that I have cultivated that look, vibe, aesthetic, etc.  It's better to be known for something than not known at all.  And I happen to like the Satanic smut peddler edgelord reputation, just like when I was 17.  Is it all an act, is it real?  I'll let the individual decide for himself.

Meanwhile, "Daddy's home!"

Soul searching over.  Venger's back in, hoss.  I will find a way...
https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2024/08/do-you-believe-in-unlikelihoods.html

Quote from: VengerSatanis on August 30, 2024, 05:28:36 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2024, 11:40:34 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMDon't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

Nope.

Because "I don't want to buy X because Y" is not censorship.

If it were you need to get yourself to a Christian bookstore and start buying from them or you are censoring Christian booksellers.

No one has called for Venger to be shut down. People have simply explained why they had no desire for his products. People are allowed to not want to buy things for any reason.

Your sanctimonious screaming at straw men says more about you (and your presumably bad experiences with the Satanic Panic crowd in the past) than it does about the people you're trying to associate with censorship for their exercise of prudential judgment.

Personally, I've never looked at his products because anyone who markets himself using the name of the villain from the D&D cartoon and plays into all the edgelord tropes (including claiming to be the son of Satan) sounds like they're trying too hard for attention because they don't think their products are good enough to merit attention on their own.

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

While I understand and appreciate Blackstone's rush to clear my name, the fact is that I have cultivated that look, vibe, aesthetic, etc.  It's better to be known for something than not known at all.  And I happen to like the Satanic smut peddler edgelord reputation, just like when I was 17.  Is it all an act, is it real?  I'll let the individual decide for himself.

Meanwhile, "Daddy's home!"

Soul searching over.  Venger's back in, hoss.  I will find a way...
https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2024/08/do-you-believe-in-unlikelihoods.html

Diversify my dude, try a different genre/style, yes a more vanilla one could work, but also a more metal one with less gonzo in it, and dare I say it? ZERO smut, that alone increases your reach, but the main thing is diversify, like we old curmudgeons like to say: Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Well, I'm glad you're keeping at it. And I've been advocating PoD for years. I've managed to do quite well for years without ever doing a Kickstarter.

You mention wanting to do hardcovers, but there's no reason you can't do hardcover PoDs. Some of my books are available as very nice hardcovers, on DTRPG, on Amazon, and even on Lulu in Dark Albion's case (special alternate cover).

Kickstarters require you having to do all the fulfillment yourself, or hire people or whatever. It seems like a hassle to me, and I would be doing it with some publisher at least.

Can some KS projects get $1.4 million? Sure. But not most. And all the ones who do will probably have a ton of expenses. Whether it's 1.4 million or twelve thousand dollars, that's all gross, not net. You have to then handle a bunch of expenses. Why complicate your life with all that?

And yes, as Geeky said: think about testing out a new genre. I would suggest maybe one without hookers, and if you can somehow manage it, tentacles either.

Doing home book binding isn't that hard to do and it'll only take a few hundred dollars to set you up.  All the stuff to do hard covers at home is readily available.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on August 30, 2024, 05:28:36 PMWhile I understand and appreciate Blackstone's rush to clear my name, the fact is that I have cultivated that look, vibe, aesthetic, etc.  It's better to be known for something than not known at all.  And I happen to like the Satanic smut peddler edgelord reputation, just like when I was 17.  Is it all an act, is it real?  I'll let the individual decide for himself.

Meanwhile, "Daddy's home!"

Soul searching over.  Venger's back in, hoss.  I will find a way...
https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2024/08/do-you-believe-in-unlikelihoods.html

Glad to hear you're back.  I'm not in your target market segment, but as an entrepreneur who has spent his life chasing big dreams, it hurts my soul to see somebody give up on theirs.  I wish you well.