The fact he has that sort of Anton Lavey satanic cult leader look (bald w/goatee) doesn't help.  nor does the VengerCon art where he's a literal demon doing the metal horns sign.

He's a cool guy from the bit I've talked to him on social media but the vibes are not helping.

You all should lighten up and realize it's just an act.

It's quite obvious.

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:10:07 AMYou all should lighten up and realize it's just an act.

It's quite obvious.

If a normal person is not able to separate the act from the person and said person represents the product that they are using their act on how else then should one take it?

At this point the persona of Venger Satanis nee Darrick is one of a satanic smut peddling rpg hustler who spouts edge lord level writings on his blog and in his rpg books.  He is free to do as he wish and the market reacts and judges according to their perceptions.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 29, 2024, 09:14:35 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:10:07 AMYou all should lighten up and realize it's just an act.

It's quite obvious.

If a normal person is not able to separate the act from the person and said person represents the product that they are using their act on how else then should one take it?

At this point the persona of Venger Satanis nee Darrick is one of a satanic smut peddling rpg hustler who spouts edge lord level writings on his blog and in his rpg books.  He is free to do as he wish and the market reacts and judges according to their perceptions.

"Burn the witch!!! Burn!!!!"

What a bunch of sanctimonious bullshit. I think you REALY need to look at the words you used:

QuoteVenger Satanis nee Darrick is one of a satanic smut peddling rpg hustler who spouts edge lord level writings on his blog and in his rpg books.

The words you used to describe, in your opinion, Venger Satanis are no different than the much of the same types of words used against D&D back during the "Satanic panic" years.

Don't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

 You've become what you most hated a feared.

I want to make something perfectly clear: I don't care what side of the political spectrum anyone is on. Be it left or right, EVERYONE has freedom of speech. I might not like what you say, BUT I"M GOING TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT. That goes for you and Venger.

What I can't tolerate is when somebody wants to censor another, and this appears what you're advocating: censorship.

Luckily Venger's store will still be open at the usual web sites. He might not make any new material, but the current stuff will be for the future.

And there's NOTHING you can do about it. So, enjoy your hollow victory.

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMDon't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

Nope.

Because "I don't want to buy X because Y" is not censorship.

If it were you need to get yourself to a Christian bookstore and start buying from them or you are censoring Christian booksellers.

No one has called for Venger to be shut down. People have simply explained why they had no desire for his products. People are allowed to not want to buy things for any reason.

Your sanctimonious screaming at straw men says more about you (and your presumably bad experiences with the Satanic Panic crowd in the past) than it does about the people you're trying to associate with censorship for their exercise of prudential judgment.

Personally, I've never looked at his products because anyone who markets himself using the name of the villain from the D&D cartoon and plays into all the edgelord tropes (including claiming to be the son of Satan) sounds like they're trying too hard for attention because they don't think their products are good enough to merit attention on their own.

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2024, 11:40:34 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMDon't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

Nope.

Because "I don't want to buy X because Y" is not censorship.

If it were you need to get yourself to a Christian bookstore and start buying from them or you are censoring Christian booksellers.

No one has called for Venger to be shut down. People have simply explained why they had no desire for his products. People are allowed to not want to buy things for any reason.

Your sanctimonious screaming at straw men says more about you (and your presumably bad experiences with the Satanic Panic crowd in the past) than it does about the people you're trying to associate with censorship for their exercise of prudential judgment.

Personally, I've never looked at his products because anyone who markets himself using the name of the villain from the D&D cartoon and plays into all the edgelord tropes (including claiming to be the son of Satan) sounds like they're trying too hard for attention because they don't think their products are good enough to merit attention on their own.

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

I never had any issues back during the Satanic Panic, though I know several people who did. Your assumption that I did are incorrect.

Yes, people can choose to not buy his product, and I get it. It's not for everyone. What I don't understand is some of the vitriol and hate behind some of it. There are people who are taking great joy in destroying his source of income.

My concern is the language used can devolve into advocating censorship. Again, I'm against such of thing, regardless of who it's directed towards. As long as the target of criticism hasn't advocated censorship or violence, it's fair game, and as far as I know Venger hasn't advocated either.

I hope I'm clear on this and we understand each other.

Well, if some of you guys want to be able to play an OSR fantasy RPG where you can be explicitly Christian characters fighting for Christianity, there's always Sword & Caravan, and Baptism of Fire.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 29, 2024, 12:48:42 PMWell, if some of you guys want to be able to play an OSR fantasy RPG where you can be explicitly Christian characters fighting for Christianity, there's always Sword & Caravan, and Baptism of Fire.

Shameless plug? you clever devil...

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMWhat I can't tolerate is when somebody wants to censor another, and this appears what you're advocating: censorship.

Luckily Venger's store will still be open at the usual web sites. He might not make any new material, but the current stuff will be for the future.

And there's NOTHING you can do about it. So, enjoy your hollow victory.

Holy Shit son. You took my response and ran with it to the moon screaming I'm literally Big Brother.


To be 100% clear: I abhor censorship of any kind.

 I fully support a persons right to free speach. I may disagree with what you say, however you have the full right to say it. Now the consequences of your words, that's on you. And by you, since I need to be clear here, I mean "You" as a normal person on this planet.

Not a single word of what I wrote advocated for canceling, censoring, deplatforming, or otherwise removing Venger's (or any other RPG writer) products for sale.   

You, Blackstone are being disengenous.


Venger quitting because...Take your pick on the reasons they are all out there and have been discussed to death.

 I've described both him and the contents of his books as "satanic smut peddling rpg hustler" because I own his books, I've seen what's in them,  have gone to his convention, spoken to him personally and watched as he got excited at the Dallas board game he got as a gift. Comparing him to Larry Flynt and JR would give him no end of satisfaction.

Business' fail all the time. Some come back, most do not.

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 12:36:33 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 29, 2024, 11:40:34 AM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMDon't you see the irony? The hypocrisy?

Nope.

Because "I don't want to buy X because Y" is not censorship.

If it were you need to get yourself to a Christian bookstore and start buying from them or you are censoring Christian booksellers.

No one has called for Venger to be shut down. People have simply explained why they had no desire for his products. People are allowed to not want to buy things for any reason.

Your sanctimonious screaming at straw men says more about you (and your presumably bad experiences with the Satanic Panic crowd in the past) than it does about the people you're trying to associate with censorship for their exercise of prudential judgment.

Personally, I've never looked at his products because anyone who markets himself using the name of the villain from the D&D cartoon and plays into all the edgelord tropes (including claiming to be the son of Satan) sounds like they're trying too hard for attention because they don't think their products are good enough to merit attention on their own.

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

I never had any issues back during the Satanic Panic, though I know several people who did. Your assumption that I did are incorrect.

Yes, people can choose to not buy his product, and I get it. It's not for everyone. What I don't understand is some of the vitriol and hate behind some of it. There are people who are taking great joy in destroying his source of income.

My concern is the language used can devolve into advocating censorship. Again, I'm against such of thing, regardless of who it's directed towards. As long as the target of criticism hasn't advocated censorship or violence, it's fair game, and as far as I know Venger hasn't advocated either.

I hope I'm clear on this and we understand each other.

The smut/lewd material in some of Venger's products is too much for me.  This is particularly true of Alpha Blue.  I would never tell anyone not to publish something like this or not to buy it but I would say that it does restrict the audience and potential customers.  I don't think this is censorious.

I wish Venger all the best and I hope he finds his success. 

Just contacted Venger recently and bought hardcovers of all 3 Cha'alt books.  Wanted to do so earlier, just minding my cash flow. 

The first things I heard about Venger on the internet (Facebook, I think) were what a terrible guy he was and blah blah blah.  Which naturally made me curious.  Over time I just shake my head at people who think he's some kind of evil person or terrible influence.  Like Pundit said in a video, he's a color wizard.  And a family man.  Hardly the kind of person that should make you clutch your pearls.

I hope Venger sticks around in the community because I think he adds something valuable and I enjoy his contributions.  I don't have to agree with him (or anyone) on every issue to find him of value.

I like Venger's stuff (well, not a fan of the smut) but it's the niche in a niche syndrome. It's a very specific strand of OSR type play and then on top of that you add Venger weirdness. Only a small small group's going to ever go for that, but at least, they would be dedicated.

If you publish for a niche that happens to get really popular, overall; you can make some money and be your own boss.  If you publish for a niche that isn't as popular, overall; you may just have to settle for publishing your fantasy heart breakers, for the enjoyment of it. 

Imagine how many really talented people, can't make a good living doing what they really love to do.  Musicians, for instance.....

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 29, 2024, 02:43:15 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 29, 2024, 09:37:33 AMWhat I can't tolerate is when somebody wants to censor another, and this appears what you're advocating: censorship.

Luckily Venger's store will still be open at the usual web sites. He might not make any new material, but the current stuff will be for the future.

And there's NOTHING you can do about it. So, enjoy your hollow victory.

Holy Shit son. You took my response and ran with it to the moon screaming I'm literally Big Brother.


To be 100% clear: I abhor censorship of any kind.

 I fully support a persons right to free speach. I may disagree with what you say, however you have the full right to say it. Now the consequences of your words, that's on you. And by you, since I need to be clear here, I mean "You" as a normal person on this planet.

Not a single word of what I wrote advocated for canceling, censoring, deplatforming, or otherwise removing Venger's (or any other RPG writer) products for sale.   

You, Blackstone are being disengenous.


Venger quitting because...Take your pick on the reasons they are all out there and have been discussed to death.

 I've described both him and the contents of his books as "satanic smut peddling rpg hustler" because I own his books, I've seen what's in them,  have gone to his convention, spoken to him personally and watched as he got excited at the Dallas board game he got as a gift. Comparing him to Larry Flynt and JR would give him no end of satisfaction.

Business' fail all the time. Some come back, most do not.

If I misunderstood your stance on advocating censorship, then my apologies. It wasn't being disingenuous on my part. It was a matter of reading in too much into what was actually said.

I do see we share the sentiment in regards to free speech. That's good to know that we share some common ground. We BOTH might not like what the other says, but we'll defend their right to say it. I'm all for that.

As far as his business, customers and markets change. I just can't help thinking that the negativity generated by some people helped bring this about. I'm sure there are some that stayed away from buying was just from other people's opinions and didn't judge it for themselves. Which IMO is quite sad.

Either way, what's done is done. I hope we can move on with this and we have a mutual understanding of each other.

Thanks

Quote from: blackstone on August 30, 2024, 08:23:27 AMEither way, what's done is done. I hope we can move on with this and we have a mutual understanding of each other.

Thanks

Water under the bridge.  We can be Huckleberry's again.