Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

Quote from: Zalman on August 20, 2024, 05:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

I also recall it happening in some Clark Ashton Smith stories, the Double Shadow comes to mind and iirc he's in Appendix N too.

Edit: Nvm apparently Clark Ashton Smith isnt in Appendix N

Quote from: Slambo on August 20, 2024, 08:55:11 AM

Quote from: Zalman on August 20, 2024, 05:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

I also recall it happening in some Clark Ashton Smith stories, the Double Shadow comes to mind and iirc he's in Appendix N too.

Edit: Nvm apparently Clark Ashton Smith isnt in Appendix N

But he is included in the inspirational reading section of B/X.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 20, 2024, 09:03:56 AM

Quote from: Slambo on August 20, 2024, 08:55:11 AM

Quote from: Zalman on August 20, 2024, 05:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

I also recall it happening in some Clark Ashton Smith stories, the Double Shadow comes to mind and iirc he's in Appendix N too.

Edit: Nvm apparently Clark Ashton Smith isnt in Appendix N

But he is included in the inspirational reading section of B/X.

I knew i found him in some Inspirational Reading section, thought I was having a Mandela Effect moment for a while there.

Quote from: Zalman on August 20, 2024, 05:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

Physical change in Lovecraft is most often a result of either devolution due to circumstances (The Rats in the Walls, The Beast in the Cave), or getting freaky with something you shouldn't have (The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Dunwich Horror). A person is cursed to turn into a monster in The Curse of Yig (which he co-wrote with another author), and the Color Out of Space appears to have mutative properties on plants and animals, but usually the punishment people get for meddling with the occult is just going nuts.

Quote from: Slambo on August 20, 2024, 08:55:11 AMI also recall it happening in some Clark Ashton Smith stories, the Double Shadow comes to mind and iirc he's in Appendix N too.

I'll have to go back to that one. I had no memory of it happening in any of the Smith tales I've read.

While I don't at all like the mutation trope in games, I am quite curious where it originates from. I think Brad hit the nail on the head earlier when he mentioned science fiction. Fundamentally, the logic of it is treating magic as if it produces radiation the way nuclear energy does. That approach goes back to at least The Color of Magic in 1983, but pretty much everything in the Color of Magic is a pastiche of something from an earlier fantasy story. Poul Anderson mentions normal radiation being produced by a magical effect in Three Hearts, Three Lions, so I wouldn't be surprised if the idea starts there.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 20, 2024, 07:32:28 PM

Quote from: Zalman on August 20, 2024, 05:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brad on August 19, 2024, 09:35:58 PMThat's probably because Appendix N is Gary Gygax's inspiration for D&D and thus influenced every other RPG design in existence. Most RPGs bear no resemblance to any S&S novel I've ever read, either, and D&D has more in common with science fiction and pulp than what we'd consider fantasy. Eldritch horrors corrupting magicians is right out of those creepy tales books; seems like it'd fit right in that move Creepshow or something. It also makes for an interesting and fun game, so there's that aspect...there's zero need for everything in a game to have some literary basis.

Yeah, physical corruption as a result of messing with occult matters is a recurring theme in Lovecraft as well, who also appears in Appendix N.

Physical change in Lovecraft is most often a result of either devolution due to circumstances (The Rats in the Walls, The Beast in the Cave), or getting freaking with something you shouldn't have (The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Dunwich Horror). A person is cursed to turn into a monster in The Curse of Yig (which he co-wrote with another author), and the Color Out of Space appears to have mutative properties on plants and animals, but usually the punishment people get for meddling with the occult is just going nuts.

Quote from: Slambo on August 20, 2024, 08:55:11 AMI also recall it happening in some Clark Ashton Smith stories, the Double Shadow comes to mind and iirc he's in Appendix N too.

I'll have to go back to that one. I had no memory of it happening in any of the Smith tales I've read.

While I don't at all like the mutation trope in games, I am quite curious where it originates from. I think Brad hit the nail on the head earlier when he mentioned science fiction. Fundamentally, the logic of it is treating magic as if it produces radiation the way nuclear energy does. That approach goes back to at least The Color of Magic in 1983, but pretty much everything in the Color of Magic is a pastiche of something from an earlier fantasy story. Poul Anderson mentions normal radiation being produced by a magical effect in Three Hearts, Three Lions, so I wouldn't be surprised if the idea starts there.

Iirc the Double Shadow is a Poseidonis story which is feel like is some of his lesser known works. I was listening to a reading of it while on a long drive.

To be fair, the wizard in this story was working with magic he didnt fully understand that iirc was originally scribed for serpent men to use.