Quote from: Omega on July 15, 2024, 11:47:41 AMBleed is when the player is blurring the line between PC and self. You start thinking of yourself at the table and on the street more as Alkharg the Elf Destroyer rather than Jane Doe, accountant. Worse case scenario is you momentarily stop thinking of yourself as Jane Doe, accountant at all.

BLACKLEAF!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

In general I prefer to avoid playing with anyone who needs safety tools outside of a session zero. We're here to play a game together, not go through psycho-sexual regressive therapy. If you need 'aftercare' and worry about 'bleed' and need X cards I don't want you at my table.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 15, 2024, 02:29:18 PMIn general I prefer to avoid playing with anyone who needs safety tools outside of a session zero. We're here to play a game together, not go through psycho-sexual regressive therapy. If you need 'aftercare' and worry about 'bleed' and need X cards I don't want you at my table.

But Tom Hanks is cool, man.

Quote from: Omega on July 15, 2024, 11:47:41 AMBleed is when the player is blurring the line between PC and self. You start thinking of yourself at the table and on the street more as Alkharg the Elf Destroyer rather than Jane Doe, accountant. Worse case scenario is you momentarily stop thinking of yourself as Jane Doe, accountant at all.

As I know it, the term is from Nordic Larp. This is their 2009 definition:

QuoteBleed is experienced by a player when her thoughts and feelings are influenced by those of her character, or vice versa. With increasing bleed, the border between player and character becomes more and more transparent. It makes sense to think of the degree of bleed as a measure of how separated different levels of play (actual/inner/meta) are.

Bleed is instrumental for horror role-playing: It is often harder to scare the player through the character than the other way around. An overt secluded dice roll against a player's perception stat is likely to make the character more catious.

A classic example of bleed is when a player's affection for another player carries over into the game or influences her character's perception of the other's character.

Source: https://nordiclarp.org/wiki/Bleed

As defined here, it's completely unremarkable. If the GM puts on scary music and a player's PC acts more jumpy, then that's bleed (aka "bleed-in" where out-of-character emotions affect the in-game stuff). If a player gets pissed at Bob because Bob psycho PC killed his PC, then that's also bleed (aka "bleed-out" where stuff in-game affects the player's feelings out-of-game).

But I've also seen it used as if it's more of a weird mental/emotional state. So I'm not sure how people in online play like startplaying.games intend it. It certainly isn't a "safety tool".

Going back to the first page,

WHO pays $300/hr for GM advice ??

the only ones I have heard of playing RPGs for money was corporate 'team building' nonsense.
what other 'professional' settings would there be?

can i sell you some advice for money? 
free sample; dont buy a house now, wait.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 15, 2024, 02:29:18 PMIn general I prefer to avoid playing with anyone who needs safety tools outside of a session zero. We're here to play a game together, not go through psycho-sexual regressive therapy. If you need 'aftercare' and worry about 'bleed' and need X cards I don't want you at my table.

Session zero isn't a safety tool. It exists to get everyone on the same page to facilitate the opening of a new campaign (rolling characters, establishing backgrounds,  making sure you don't pick a mounted warrior in a dungeon-crawl, etc.).  Anyone who sees session zero as mainly a way to set ground rules for their sexual content is a deviant sexpest and should be avoided at all costs!

Quote from: orbitalair on July 15, 2024, 03:38:34 PMGoing back to the first page,

WHO pays $300/hr for GM advice ??

the only ones I have heard of playing RPGs for money was corporate 'team building' nonsense.
what other 'professional' settings would there be?

can i sell you some advice for money? 
free sample; dont buy a house now, wait.

I've heard it expressed as follows, "If your customers are all idiots, then you are either a scam-artists or a fool yourself.  Smart people earn smart money."

No one with greater than a room-temperature IQ is going to pay hundreds of dollars for DMing advice.  No one.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2024, 03:55:36 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 15, 2024, 02:29:18 PMIn general I prefer to avoid playing with anyone who needs safety tools outside of a session zero. We're here to play a game together, not go through psycho-sexual regressive therapy. If you need 'aftercare' and worry about 'bleed' and need X cards I don't want you at my table.

Session zero isn't a safety tool. It exists to get everyone on the same page to facilitate the opening of a new campaign (rolling characters, establishing backgrounds,  making sure you don't pick a mounted warrior in a dungeon-crawl, etc.).  Anyone who sees session zero as mainly a way to set ground rules for their sexual content is a deviant sexpest and should be avoided at all costs!

Session Zero is most definitely a "Safety tool" even if you don't like the term.

If I'm running Vampire: The Masquerade I'm going to be up front if the game is going to include things like sex workers, drug addiction, and human trafficking.

I want to make sure everyone is on the same page and talks about how dark we're going to go.

On the other hand if I'm running Mutants and Masterminds it's going to be very important to talk about whether we're going to be Silver age vs Iron Age in terms of content and feel.

Different games have different "ratings". Hell Dungeons and Dragons is going to be very different if you establish the tone will be "Berserk" versus Lord of the Rings.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2024, 03:58:27 PMNo one with greater than a room-temperature IQ is going to pay hundreds of dollars for DMing advice.  No one.

These days there are money-making activities like paid GMing on startplaying.games as well as "actual play" streaming like Critical Role.

If someone is up-and-coming at making money from these, then they might well pay a lot for advice on how to monetize. Just like someone might pay a lot for professional advice on how to run their RPG Kickstarter, which goes beyond general game design and gets into marketing, social media use, and so forth.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2024, 03:55:36 PMSession zero isn't a safety tool. It exists to get everyone on the same page to facilitate the opening of a new campaign (rolling characters, establishing backgrounds,  making sure you don't pick a mounted warrior in a dungeon-crawl, etc.).  Anyone who sees session zero as mainly a way to set ground rules for their sexual content is a deviant sexpest and should be avoided at all costs!

In my group, session zero is essentially the last checkpoint in preparing for a game to start, to make sure everyone's got all their stuff in a row and we are ready to go, a brief review of table rules, maybe a short discussion of what to expect over the coming campaign (forex: "hey, this AP has a lot of underwater combat, make sure your character can function in that sort of environment").

The sorts of people who have these bizarre checklists and "safety tools" aren't the sort I'd be willing to associate with to begin with, much less invite to my table. And if one managed to get through that filter -- I seriously doubt they'd willingly stay in the game long, given the sorts of things that get said at the table OOC or discussed in our discord servers.

Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2024, 04:23:46 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2024, 03:58:27 PMNo one with greater than a room-temperature IQ is going to pay hundreds of dollars for DMing advice.  No one.

These days there are money-making activities like paid GMing on startplaying.games as well as "actual play" streaming like Critical Role.

If someone is up-and-coming at making money from these, then they might well pay a lot for advice on how to monetize. Just like someone might pay a lot for professional advice on how to run their RPG Kickstarter, which goes beyond general game design and gets into marketing, social media use, and so forth.

None of which is "GM advice."  I stand by my statement.  Even more so since you oppose it, since you are pretty much always wrong...

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 15, 2024, 04:10:30 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2024, 03:55:36 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 15, 2024, 02:29:18 PMIn general I prefer to avoid playing with anyone who needs safety tools outside of a session zero. We're here to play a game together, not go through psycho-sexual regressive therapy. If you need 'aftercare' and worry about 'bleed' and need X cards I don't want you at my table.

Session zero isn't a safety tool. It exists to get everyone on the same page to facilitate the opening of a new campaign (rolling characters, establishing backgrounds,  making sure you don't pick a mounted warrior in a dungeon-crawl, etc.).  Anyone who sees session zero as mainly a way to set ground rules for their sexual content is a deviant sexpest and should be avoided at all costs!

Session Zero is most definitely a "Safety tool" even if you don't like the term.

If I'm running Vampire: The Masquerade I'm going to be up front if the game is going to include things like sex workers, drug addiction, and human trafficking.

I want to make sure everyone is on the same page and talks about how dark we're going to go.

On the other hand if I'm running Mutants and Masterminds it's going to be very important to talk about whether we're going to be Silver age vs Iron Age in terms of content and feel.

Different games have different "ratings". Hell Dungeons and Dragons is going to be very different if you establish the tone will be "Berserk" versus Lord of the Rings.

I have never had to warn my players against content.  As GnomeWorks states, session zero primarily exists to act as the "last checkpoint" for all of my games.  If your games require to to warn players that you're going to include gross or deviant stuff, you do you.  But that's not "safety."  A roleplaying game can't be "unsafe" unless you are swinging real swords at other players during combat...

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 15, 2024, 01:32:25 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 15, 2024, 11:47:41 AMBleed is when the player is blurring the line between PC and self. You start thinking of yourself at the table and on the street more as Alkharg the Elf Destroyer rather than Jane Doe, accountant. Worse case scenario is you momentarily stop thinking of yourself as Jane Doe, accountant at all.

If that's what it is, then "Bleed" is a clear mental health issue and beyond anything GMs should be dealing with.

Yeah.

The only useful ones I see are Session 0 and Lines and Veils (which is essentially what you're discussing in Session 0.)

Wait .... I am evil and wrong for making orcs and other green skin monsters automatically monsters there to kill the players NPCs etc or be killed by those same PCs and NPCs. However, the same people that consider me evil say you need safety words content check lists XNO cards .... Especially needing those to play a romantic game ... To quote my favorite author "I am a stranger in a strange land"

I will say after each of my face to face games with my daughters I do have a quick debriefing "How did you like the session tonight" "How did I do on XYZ, what can I do better on next time" "What rule questions do you have, or do I need to look up for the next game" . And for my younger daughter, who is actively showing interest to DMing on her own one day, "do you understand why I did .... what ever DM trick I used", to help her see behind the curtain. However, I would say that is just common sense to be a better DM and help someone eventually become a good DM themselves, and not something needed from a twisted romantic safety game list.

Quote from: Lurker on July 15, 2024, 06:53:28 PMWait .... I am evil and wrong for making orcs and other green skin monsters automatically monsters there to kill the players NPCs etc or be killed by those same PCs and NPCs

That doesn't make you evil, it makes you basic. You don't have to be basic, since you could certaily introduce more nuance if you wanted it, but you're being basic by choice. That's not evil and not necessarily bad, if that's the game everyone at the table wants.