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Is Demons & Dragons the IP Theft of Basic Fantasy?

Started by jeff37923, July 01, 2024, 07:06:38 PM

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GeekyBugle

#16
July 02, 2024, 05:41:56 PM

I'm sure the publisher is going to get gone
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

THE_Leopold

#17
July 02, 2024, 07:52:02 PM
Theft? No.

Shit practice? Yes

This is no difference than buying "Guchi" or "Luis Vitton" knock offs from China.

you get what you pay for.
NKL4Lyfe

THE_Leopold

#18
July 02, 2024, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on July 02, 2024, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on July 02, 2024, 10:43:32 AMI think Drive Thru is kind of scummy for continuing to offer the game after this was made public. Because they get a cut of Gothic sales and Basic Fantasy charges nothing for their pdf.

I agree.  I think that the moment they found out they should have taken it down.  Instead they are ignoring it so they can make a profit.  Not a good look.

What gothic is doing is Legal and DTRPG is a business that makes money.

If the product was ILLEGAL then by all means lambast DTRPG to pull it down, which they have done in the past.

NKL4Lyfe

Ruprecht

#19
July 02, 2024, 10:00:13 PM
Watching the video by the creator of Basic Fantasy it seems that Gothic Church did this once before with a different named game but was called out for totally screwing the attributions. This time they mostly got it right.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

JeremyR

#20
July 02, 2024, 11:21:13 PM
Most OGL games screw up the attributions. Even some from biggish companies. Mongoose, for instance, borrowed a lot of stuff from Fading Suns d20 (the social feats, the noble class) and used them in Conan. Which would be fine, but they didn't update the OGL

GhostNinja

#21
July 03, 2024, 08:56:19 AM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on July 02, 2024, 07:55:10 PMWhat gothic is doing is Legal and DTRPG is a business that makes money.

If the product was ILLEGAL then by all means lambast DTRPG to pull it down, which they have done in the past.

It appears by a link provided earlier that it has been pulled.  So apparently Dtrpg didnt agree.  We shall see what happens.
Ghostninja

Ruprecht

#22
July 03, 2024, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: JeremyR on July 02, 2024, 11:21:13 PMMost OGL games screw up the attributions. Even some from biggish companies. Mongoose, for instance, borrowed a lot of stuff from Fading Suns d20 (the social feats, the noble class) and used them in Conan. Which would be fine, but they didn't update the OGL
The game in question appears to be a copy/paste of the entire ruleset (and modules) with art and copyright changes. Not just borrowed some stuff.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

brettmb

#23
July 03, 2024, 10:17:27 AM
This quick buck antics reminds me of the James Shipman T&T incidents.

orbitalair

#24
July 03, 2024, 10:32:09 AM
Quote from: Ruprecht on July 03, 2024, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: JeremyR on July 02, 2024, 11:21:13 PMMost OGL games screw up the attributions. Even some from biggish companies. Mongoose, for instance, borrowed a lot of stuff from Fading Suns d20 (the social feats, the noble class) and used them in Conan. Which would be fine, but they didn't update the OGL
The game in question appears to be a copy/paste of the entire ruleset (and modules) with art and copyright changes. Not just borrowed some stuff.

Thats true, but the 4th ed Basic Fantasy is CC by SA (not OGL), so he can do that IF he gives proper attribution on his title page.

Basic Fantasy is not in the business to make money, the books are sold on amazon at cost, and the pdfs are free. 

For all the pronoun nonsense, the community is large and active,and produces good products, and Gonnerman leads it pretty well, its well organized to keep books updated and flowing.




Ruprecht

#25
July 03, 2024, 12:40:06 PM
Quote from: orbitalair on July 03, 2024, 10:32:09 AMThats true, but the 4th ed Basic Fantasy is CC by SA (not OGL), so he can do that IF he gives proper attribution on his title page.

Basic Fantasy is not in the business to make money, the books are sold on amazon at cost, and the pdfs are free. 
Yes, it is not strictly illegal, just pretty scummy. My point is the comparison between just borrowed this and that and basically taking the whole thing and claiming it as your own which is sort of what they did with the copyright switch and failure at proper attribution.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

Omega

#26
July 03, 2024, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: brettmb on July 03, 2024, 10:17:27 AMThis quick buck antics reminds me of the James Shipman T&T incidents.

That was a total mess too.

jeff37923

#28
July 03, 2024, 07:30:09 PM
See, here's the thing. The theft and publication of another's work may be legal under the CC license or even the OGL (if not properly attributed) but that does not make it right. As many have said here, it is scummy and sleazy business practice but it is legal. I would hope that the hobby would police its own in these cases, but considering the practice of Woke Cancel Culture over the past few years, it may be tricky. How do you prove that the IP was used without consent of the author without having it devolve into a matter of "he said, she said"? Should the hobby be acting on cases like this or is the realm of business owners and courts of law?

Right now, the offending products plagiarized have been removed from DriveThruRPG. However, this has caused a problem with Amazon.com, where Basic Fantasy is sold at cost in print form. Chris Gonnerman is still trying to get that problem solved.

For myself, I don't want sleazy business practices like Gothic Games have done to be representative of my hobby and it's creators.
"Meh."
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