Well, halflings also can't enjoy certain rides at theme parks.

The original rules didn't predict the fetishization of the races. In every game I've played in the last 10 years, the party has been a rainbow alliance with maybe one human, unless the DM put restrictions on race selection. My prefered approach is random selection from a table designed for the campaign starting location. As the players explore the sandbox the table changes to incorporate newly discovered races. I don't really understand choosing your race or gender any more than choosing your stats. As Gandalf might say, all we have to decide is what to do with what we are given.

Stat limits for race and sex offend my mathematical sensibilities due to the discontiuity. I'd prefer to go with contextual bonuses and penalties to checks rather than fiddling with the stats. For example, a half-orc with INT 18 is super smart in the company of other half-orcs, but is still going to get a penalty trying to decipher ancient elvish texts.

Level limits I understand in terms of progression within a tradition. My female dwarf cleric is never going to be the human Pope. Other than that I wouldn't bother.

FWIW the newest supplement for Swords & Wizardry includes both race-based classes for Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes, and also has the OD&D Race/Class level limits.  So it's all over the place, but certain elements from the original game are retained and all classes are definitely not open to all races RAW.

Quote from: Lynn on June 29, 2024, 01:07:53 AMThere is that but as an example, read about the different elf types, their limits and behaviors. These suggest the state of the world in which they exist.

Halflings. Some halflings have dwarven blood and some elven blood. This means that humans arent the only race able to get jiggy with the green alien women! heh-heh.

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2024, 06:31:47 PMHalflings. Some halflings have dwarven blood and some elven blood. This means that humans arent the only race able to get jiggy with the green alien women! heh-heh.

I liked the non-Tolkien twists.

I have often wondered about elves as, in AD&D (1e), they were distinctly smaller than humans. That seems to have gone away since.

Quote from: Osman Gazi on June 25, 2024, 03:55:22 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on June 25, 2024, 03:42:21 PM

Quote from: Osman Gazi on June 25, 2024, 03:37:03 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on June 25, 2024, 03:30:29 PMI think I recall reading that Gary thought that if demihumans were all around better than humans, then they would be dominant in the setting.  He wanted humans to be primary hence the limits.

I played AD&D for about a decade and due to character churn, nobody got above 12th level.  I'm pretty sure no one ever hit a racial level limit, so it wasn't really meaningful for our game.  I can't recall anyone mentioning any of the other limits either.

I'm pretty sure game balance is the primary concern for the limits.  If there are only advantages to being an elf then why be anything else?

We played RAW in this regard, and never had any issues with it

If the caps are rarely approached, then it seems as though they're merely theoretical and don't address the problem Gary was trying to address--namely, if the players rarely survive to the higher levels, then they never have to fear the downsides of being non-human and so you still have the incentive to only play non-human races (at least regarding this rule).

When I said "in the setting" I meant which races have the most political power, strongest kingdoms, most people, etc.  You're right that in our game the level limits didn't do much of anything.

Gotcha, understand now.  Yup, in world-building, one might think that probably some Elven Mega-level Magic User should rule the world.  Capping them would mean that instead, it's probably going to be...a Human Mega-level Magic User.  (With Magic in a world, I really would expect Wizards to eventually rule everything...assuming they survive having such crappy hit points at low levels, they're likely to be very, very good at higher levels.)

I always figured where Gods are real, Clerics would rule everything...  ;-)

It's a lot like rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock.  Each has strengths and weaknesses.  Figure very small percentage of the population of any race has magical ability, maybe a bit larger percentage has access to the Divine.  In theory, I guess, the longer lived races should be able to advance further, but I like the limits.  Of course, if a DM needs a more powerful NPC, well, there are paragons, or the demihuman gods can intervene.

Quote from: Lynn on July 01, 2024, 01:02:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2024, 06:31:47 PMHalflings. Some halflings have dwarven blood and some elven blood. This means that humans arent the only race able to get jiggy with the green alien women! heh-heh.

I liked the non-Tolkien twists.

I have often wondered about elves as, in AD&D (1e), they were distinctly smaller than humans. That seems to have gone away since.

Movies and TV shows. Easier to try and sell the IP if its easier to costume without extensive prosthetics and CGI.

Quote from: Iconoclastic Tim on July 01, 2024, 03:05:14 PMn theory, I guess, the longer lived races should be able to advance further, but I like the limits.

Long life does not automatically mean unlimited growth.

Quote from: Omega on July 03, 2024, 03:38:42 PM

Quote from: Lynn on July 01, 2024, 01:02:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2024, 06:31:47 PMHalflings. Some halflings have dwarven blood and some elven blood. This means that humans arent the only race able to get jiggy with the green alien women! heh-heh.

I liked the non-Tolkien twists.

I have often wondered about elves as, in AD&D (1e), they were distinctly smaller than humans. That seems to have gone away since.

Movies and TV shows. Easier to try and sell the IP if its easier to costume without extensive prosthetics and CGI.

Elfquest was very popular.  Its elves are much shorter than humans

Quote from: Mishihari on July 03, 2024, 07:00:51 PMElfquest was very popular.  Its elves are much shorter than humans

And?

Its not being markets for live action.

And since the Elfquest books were 90% just elves. You could cast everyone with normal actors and just pretend the scale. Wolves would be the tough one. But aniamtronics could cover that.