Quote from: Festus on June 19, 2024, 12:36:28 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on June 18, 2024, 05:57:05 PMThat's not confusion.  It's laziness.

Nah, when you're talking about a new player who likely created their character on D&D Beyond with a bunch of assets shared with them by a friend - and they've never bought or read any rules let alone the AL documents - it's confusion. Their whole experience of the game at that point is using an online tool and choosing cool sounding things from a list of options presented, without understanding that those options are drawn from different sources. "If it's not allowed, then why did the website let me pick it?"

There's some laziness sometimes, too. And sometimes it's literally just cheating or rather, "I don't like that rule, so I'm ignoring it."  But definitely, what you said is included.

And sometimes, D&D Beyond is so easy to include things that... Uhm.  Uh.  *cough cough* A person might use "Gift of Alacrity" because it was an option for "Magic Initiate" and it looked interesting, why did I never use that spell before. Only to find out during play, "Oh, crap, you're right, it's a Wildemont spell."

Haha.  Sometimes it's just accidental. So we just fix it and move on.  (obviously personal experience there.)

Quote from: hoshisabi on June 18, 2024, 03:30:05 PMUh, no. There was never a need to introduce anything to label people as "Reactionary." Most folks that hold these opinions will gladly share them given the chance. I apologize if that sounds snarky or hostile, but you have to admit ... No one has to trick someone who uses "woke" as a pejorative into revealing that fact.

'Woke' is a short word that succinctly sums up a world-view. There seem to be a few beliefs that people either have all of (and so are woke) or don't have any of. So it's a useful word that the Left appropriated from black culture. It seems whenever they create a term, they get upset when the Right start using it to mean the same things the Left have (politically correct, social justice warrior, ...).

If you'd prefer a different name, please let us know. But don't be upset if we use the word exactly as you tell us to.

'Reactionary', on the other hand, appears to be an invention of the Left. I've never heard anybody describe themselves as 'reactionary', or seen it used in a neutral or positive manner. I don't understand why someone would use a word like that. I guess the Left just isn't caring and tolerant like the Right is.

Anyway, please don't derail the thread. I've explained why the word 'woke' makes sense in the title. Now, let's discuss which companies are anti-consumer and which aren't, which is what this thread is for.

Reactionary is a smear invented by the far left to throw on anyone who isn't entirely on-board with whatever the far left wants right now including more moderate leftists. 

Quote from: yosemitemike on June 21, 2024, 01:47:00 AMReactionary is a smear invented by the far left to throw on anyone who isn't entirely on-board with whatever the far left wants right now including more moderate leftists. 

So basically the 2024 equivalent of the ol' Stalin era classic smear/crime of being "counter-revolutionary"?

Quote from: RNGm on June 21, 2024, 02:51:26 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on June 21, 2024, 01:47:00 AMReactionary is a smear invented by the far left to throw on anyone who isn't entirely on-board with whatever the far left wants right now including more moderate leftists. 

So basically the 2024 equivalent of the ol' Stalin era classic smear/crime of being "counter-revolutionary"?

Exactly.  Any game company or individual who uses it unironically is basically declaring that they'd happily put you up against the wall.  If you see an employee of a game company use it, document it here, as it's pretty much a commie buzz-word...

Quote from: Krazz on June 20, 2024, 05:15:41 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on June 18, 2024, 03:30:05 PMUh, no. There was never a need to introduce anything to label people as "Reactionary." Most folks that hold these opinions will gladly share them given the chance. I apologize if that sounds snarky or hostile, but you have to admit ... No one has to trick someone who uses "woke" as a pejorative into revealing that fact.

'Woke' is a short word that succinctly sums up a world-view. There seem to be a few beliefs that people

It was not a derail but was EXACTLY the topic. Someone mentioned that they thought that the change from race to species was to uncover someone that, as I stated, never was covered up. Everyone who feels that "RPG companies are Woke" are happy to share their opinions in threads like this, out in the open.

In conversation, they'll tell me. We can happily chat about how I disagree with them, but it's just a difference in opinion and not something that they whisper to me and ask me to keep secret for them.

This change is just done to appeal to the audience who feels that there needs to be a better distinction between the fantastical term and the real world term, because the real world term comes with baggage.

I personally preferred "ancestry" over "species" since it felt more in touch with the genre, but I like that change. And there are those in this forum that do not. Neither group of people are going to be shy about saying why, if asked.

That was my point.

Saw this tossed out on a forum as "proof" Gygax was sexist. Think one of the woke members here parroted it too. But this does not sound like something Gygax would say. There were wimen playing from the start and women working on the game from the start. Art, editing, typesetting, modules.

QuoteAs a biological determinist, I am positive that most females do not play RPGs because of a difference in brain function. They can play as well as males, but they do not achieve the same sense of satisfaction from playing. In short there is no special game that will attract females--other that LARPing, which is more socialization and theatrics and gaming--and it is a waste of time and effort to attempt such a thing.

Quote from: Omega on June 22, 2024, 01:58:09 AMSaw this tossed out on a forum as "proof" Gygax was sexist. Think one of the woke members here parroted it too. But this does not sound like something Gygax would say. There were wimen playing from the start and women working on the game from the start. Art, editing, typesetting, modules.

I believe this is from 2005, with Gary posting as Col_Pladoh on the Dragonsfoot forums in the thread "Q&A With Gary Gygax, Part III".

QuoteThere were never many female gamers in our group. My daughter Elise was one of two original play-testers for the first draft of what became the D&D game, and both of her younger sisters played...and lost interest in a few months as she did.

In our campaign group that cycled through in a couple of years (74-75) something in the neighborhood of 100 or so different players, there were perhaps three females.

As a biological determinist, I am positive that most females do not play RPGs because of a difference in brain function. They can play as well as males, but they do not achieve the same sense of satisfaction from playing.

In short there is no special game that will attract females--other that LARPing, which is more csocialization and theatrics and gaming--and it is a waste of time and effort to attempt such a thing.

This calls to mind when Lionel made pastel colored trains and train cars to appeal to females. The effort bombed, the sets were recalled and re-dine as standard models, and those pastel ones that survived are rare collectors items.

https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12147&start=60

I'm not claiming anything about it - just giving the source and context.

Quote from: hoshisabi on June 21, 2024, 11:22:33 PM

Quote from: Krazz on June 20, 2024, 05:15:41 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on June 18, 2024, 03:30:05 PMUh, no. There was never a need to introduce anything to label people as "Reactionary." Most folks that hold these opinions will gladly share them given the chance. I apologize if that sounds snarky or hostile, but you have to admit ... No one has to trick someone who uses "woke" as a pejorative into revealing that fact.

'Woke' is a short word that succinctly sums up a world-view. There seem to be a few beliefs that people

It was not a derail but was EXACTLY the topic. Someone mentioned that they thought that the change from race to species was to uncover someone that, as I stated, never was covered up. Everyone who feels that "RPG companies are Woke" are happy to share their opinions in threads like this, out in the open.

But the two paragraphs I responded to didn't mention companies, or race, or ancestry, or species. They didn't even mention RPGs. It just insulted people who use 'woke' negatively. Nobody has suggested that you can't defend woke stuff or companies on this site, and this thread would be the perfect place for that. But that's not what you did.

Which claims that an RPG company is woke do you think are wrong? Or do you think that woke companies don't fit into (to use a quote from the first post in this thread):

QuoteEntities who are categorized as Red may have engaged in anti-consumer behavior, deceptive business practices, interfered with other creators or taken a strong political stance or alienated large portions of potential customers. This also includes actual racists or sexist entities. Let the buyer beware.

That discussion is on-topic. Calling people reactionaries for discussing the topic of the thread isn't, and I don't want to read threads cluttered with that stuff, which is why I asked you to stop.

Is Shadowrun woke? Thinking about picking up some books(not sure which edition), but I don't want to support a company that shoved a bunch of modern sjw agenda rhetoric into the game.

Quote from: Monero on June 22, 2024, 08:27:51 PMIs Shadowrun woke? Thinking about picking up some books(not sure which edition), but I don't want to support a company that shoved a bunch of modern sjw agenda rhetoric into the game.

FASA wasn't Woke but Catalyst Labs most certainly is.

There's no point in playing anything more recent than 3rd or 4th edition as far as Shadowrun goes, 5th is a significant downgrade once they stopped paying good writers and 6th is a tire fire of badly-written cobbled-together garbage.  Unsurprisingly Catalyst ruined everything and they added the tranny sideline in 6th edition that sticking cyberboobs on a man won't cost essence because they're in line with his aura's "true self" or whatever, while an actual woman getting a bioware uterus replacement does have to pay essence for it.  I guess a working uterus wasn't part of her true self.

Quote from: BadApple on June 22, 2024, 08:37:51 PM

Quote from: Monero on June 22, 2024, 08:27:51 PMIs Shadowrun woke? Thinking about picking up some books(not sure which edition), but I don't want to support a company that shoved a bunch of modern sjw agenda rhetoric into the game.

FASA wasn't Woke but Catalyst Labs most certainly is.

FASA kept watering down and pulling the teeth of the settings backstory with each new edition. They did not go the 90s wave of woke. But they sure were caving in to the moral guardians more and more.

Quote from: Valatar on June 22, 2024, 11:37:53 PMThere's no point in playing anything more recent than 3rd or 4th edition as far as Shadowrun goes, 5th is a significant downgrade once they stopped paying good writers and 6th is a tire fire of badly-written cobbled-together garbage.  Unsurprisingly Catalyst ruined everything and they added the tranny sideline in 6th edition that sticking cyberboobs on a man won't cost essence because they're in line with his aura's "true self" or whatever, while an actual woman getting a bioware uterus replacement does have to pay essence for it.  I guess a working uterus wasn't part of her true self.

So Shadowrun became Cyberpunk 2020?

Quote from: Omega on June 23, 2024, 03:45:39 AM

Quote from: Valatar on June 22, 2024, 11:37:53 PMThere's no point in playing anything more recent than 3rd or 4th edition as far as Shadowrun goes, 5th is a significant downgrade once they stopped paying good writers and 6th is a tire fire of badly-written cobbled-together garbage.  Unsurprisingly Catalyst ruined everything and they added the tranny sideline in 6th edition that sticking cyberboobs on a man won't cost essence because they're in line with his aura's "true self" or whatever, while an actual woman getting a bioware uterus replacement does have to pay essence for it.  I guess a working uterus wasn't part of her true self.

So Shadowrun became Cyberpunk 2020?

Shadowrun always had the essence cost associated with cyberwear.  Essence is tied to magic so the more you loose the less magic you can perform.