A question I've been pondering in light of recent threads about new game Kickstarters and their long term impact.

A poll is obviously a very imperfect way of asking this question, but I'm quite interested in what people's answers would be. I'm aware that there's a lot of grey space between these categories, and I'm aware that a lot of people's answer would be all of the above. I gave a maximum of three votes, so people can express multiple things having high value, but I'd be curious how people would rank these categories as well.

What I'm trying to get at is this: What kind of new RPG products do you think provide the most value, either for your personal library or to the RPG hobby at large?

A version of BRP that is compatible with CoC material while being less absurdly clunky.

I personally really like universal toolkit systems. But, you have to provide supplemental material that shows the application and versatility of the system to keep it from withering on the vine.

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TL;DR for the rest: There is some good new stuff out there, but it's buried under a mountain of crap.
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However, to address the actual question: I don't think the hobby needs anything new right now. Moreover, I'm not seeing a whole lot of truly "new" stuff (there is some, but not a lot) anyway.

Mostly what I'm seeing is derivative house rules of an already well established system. We don't need another d20 system but with some quirky difference, or another percentile system that is 99% BRP but has a slight modification on how magic works.

I think what the hobby needs is a culling of all the inferior crap to separate the wheat from the chaff.

These days anybody can sell a pdf and/or pod on drivethru. That's good because there is some really high quality stuff being produced. It's bad because it gets buried under a mountain of unoriginal, low quality lookalikes.

To me roleplaying games are art, not auto parts. It's like asking whether I need a new sub-genre of heavy metal more than a new album from my favorite country singer. I don't know. Is it good? Is it cool? The HU or Robert Earl Keen, hell why not both?

"Need" and "value" really aren't part of the equation. It's about what fires my imagination or brings me joy. I won't know it until I see it, but when I do I'll buy it regardless of which of those categories it fits best.

If the question is what do I think would sell the most copies in today's market, I'd have to say the last three options referring to existing games, specifically where that existing game is some variant of 5e.

None. I have plenty to use until doomsday.

Now, if you mean WANT (which I believe you do) - nothing right now. Ask me again in 6 months.

Oh, I forgot - some kickass Star Wars supplements that ignore Disney Star Wars. I'm thinking something massive that delves into the Star Wars killed off by Disney.

Quote from: Nakana on June 14, 2024, 08:07:51 PMI don't think the hobby needs anything new right now. Moreover, I'm not seeing a whole lot of truly "new" stuff (there is some, but not a lot) anyway... I think what the hobby needs is a culling of all the inferior crap to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Quote from: Festus on June 14, 2024, 08:09:52 PMTo me roleplaying games are art, not auto parts....It's about what fires my imagination or brings me joy.

Both of these comments are almost word-for-word options I considered putting into the list, but didn't. Guess I should have

Quote from: ForgottenF on June 14, 2024, 08:32:04 PMBoth of these comments are almost word-for-word options I considered putting into the list, but didn't. Guess I should have

😆

Quote from: Nakana on June 14, 2024, 08:07:51 PMI think what the hobby needs is a culling of all the inferior crap to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Oof. I *really* don't like the sound of that. Who does the culling? Do we really want Roll20, who own DriveThru, to decide what constitutes the chaff? What if Hasbro starts buying up small publishers and deciding which of their products to keep, which to bury, and which to "rehabilitate"? Do we want Kickstarter to decide what RPG products are "crap" before they're even fully written?

If RPGs are art, then what is chaff is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore, what many might consider chaff now may be thought of as brilliant or ahead of its time or classic in 10 or 20 years. Even with bad art, just the act of making it has value to the artist themselves. How else does one learn one's craft?

For me to be able to make or play any game I want, everyone else must have the right to make or play any game they want, even if - no, *especially* if - I think their games suck.

Culling would be the death knell of the hobby and the corruption of its soul.

Quote from: Festus on June 14, 2024, 09:39:08 PM

Quote from: Nakana on June 14, 2024, 08:07:51 PMI think what the hobby needs is a culling of all the inferior crap to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Oof. I *really* don't like the sound of that. Who does the culling? Do we really want Roll20, who own DriveThru, to decide what constitutes the chaff? What if Hasbro starts buying up small publishers and deciding which of their products to keep, which to bury, and which to "rehabilitate"? Do we want Kickstarter to decide what RPG products are "crap" before they're even fully written?

If RPGs are art, then what is chaff is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore, what many might consider chaff now may be thought of as brilliant or ahead of its time or classic in 10 or 20 years. Even with bad art, just the act of making it has value to the artist themselves. How else does one learn one's craft?

For me to be able to make or play any game I want, everyone else must have the right to make or play any game they want, even if - no, *especially* if - I think their games suck.

Culling would be the death knell of the hobby and the corruption of its soul.

Greetings!

Yep, right on, my friend! I agree. Who cares if lots of stuff produced is crap? Just wade through it, and buy what you like. More variety, more opportunity, more access, for everyone. I think it is great!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The "culling" is more a hypothetical wish in a perfect world; not a proposal for an actual solution. I'm just saying: there's a lot of shit... and I get that it's all subjective.

The problem is, I'm simply not going to wade through it. I'll settle on what I already have and that's that. Which means, I'm not supporting the hobby very much financially. I may not matter, but how many others are doing the same?

I'm also separating "the hobby" from WoTC. You can play D&D forever, you're supporting Hasbro, not the hobby.

I know it seems like more is better, but I think the overwhelming fragmentation will prove detrimental. Not enough support for indie creators (good or bad) and they'll tank only leaving the bigger companies.

Better way to say it: the shitty indies will cannibalize  the good indies and they'll all die.

Hobby doesn't need any particular product, and never has.  Now, anything that makes it easier for the people doing the real work to get that to those interested in it, that's helpful.  Not that it's all that hard right now, but there is a lot of noise blocking useful signal.  It's not so much bad products as a poisoned ecosystem. 

A lot less idiots would be nice, but that's right up there high on the list of wishes that the genie can't grant.

We already have 5E, and now we are about to see new improved 5E!!! What more could we possibly need?

Hardy, har, har!!!


I was in a B-A-M last weekend, and I didn't buy a book.  I looked at what they had in the RPG section; but I didn't spend money on what i saw.  I actually had interest, but nothing tripped my trigger.  It was all 5E, and PF 2E.

So sad....

Some kind of roll-up electronic play map/mat so that I can take the best parts of a VTT and put it on a real table-top.

A VR VTT indistinguishable from being there

As sad as it may sound, I think the opposite, something aimed at solo gaming