It doesn't work anyhow.  I've been trying to teach my players the lesson "if you act like an evil idiot in town you will die" for years and it's never sunk in.

Confession: When running a Heroic fantasy game, I find it impossible to not insert some good  anti-Seattleite lessons into the game. For example, the idea that normal people are NPCs, but Heroic PCs can make a difference in the world by taking on challenging tasks.

Quote from: Zelen on June 01, 2024, 11:22:42 AMConfession: When running a Heroic fantasy game, I find it impossible to not insert some good  anti-Seattleite lessons into the game. For example, the idea that normal people are NPCs, but Heroic PCs can make a difference in the world by taking on challenging tasks.

Huh. This use of "NPCs" threw me given that we're talking about tabletop RPGs. In my tabletop experience, NPCs are often interesting people who pursue dynamic goals. I do understand in principle that it's supposed to mean dumb computer NPCs, but I don't play computer RPGs so it wasn't my first read.


Anyhow, I'm not sure how it relates to your lesson, but in my recent Tolkien games, I emphasized his theme that power corrupts, and that simple people with humility and mercy were crucial to save the world. I don't think of it as an intentional lesson for the players, but I like having it there for aesthetic reasons. My games will represent my interests and values because that's the stuff I like, but I see that as different from wanting to insert lessons.

Greetings!

Yes, in my Thandor world, my game also embraces representing my values. I certainly do not ham-fist some weird fucking political BS "lessons" into my game sessions and modules--but my values are often prominent dynamics within the campaign milieu.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I try to keep it apolitical, but I have to inject my own little things in there.  So recently, while designing a level of the Patali Underworld using Pundit's Arrows of Indra I had an area where I rolled up "toxic environment."  Pundit has tables for generating poison gas, etc.  So I added grating feminine voices whispering "me too" as you traverse the toxic environment.

Quote from: Zelen on June 01, 2024, 11:22:42 AMFor example, the idea that normal people are NPCs, but Heroic PCs can make a difference in the world by taking on challenging tasks.

This reminds me of an old article in Dragon or White Dwarf or something that talked about what level a king would be. At the time I was in high school thinking that made no sense. He might have class and level but it has little to do with the royal succession.

I do not want to game a fantasy themed After School Special. True story.

Cue Drinker: THE MESSAGE

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with A message.  Like jhkim pointed out, LotR was awash in the theme that humble nobodies saved the day while surrounded by immensely powerful badasses.  The important distinction here is that Tolkien put out a good story that presented its theme with some elegance and didn't bludgeon the audience with it like a modern girlboss movie.  A good DM should already be striving to avoid any sort of ham-fisted storytelling, so refraining from being overbearing with an aspect of the plot is part and parcel of that.

Why would I want to inject modern day tropes into my fantasy elf game about a flying lizard the size of a bus who hordes imaginary loot in an underground cave?

Just go post on Mastadon...

Quote from: David Johansen on June 01, 2024, 10:40:10 AMIt doesn't work anyhow.  I've been trying to teach my players the lesson "if you act like an evil idiot in town you will die" for years and it's never sunk in.

Yeah, it's exasperating to me, but there's no escaping the fact that a lot of players go to roleplaying games expressly to be free of moral consequences.

Quote from: ForgottenF on June 03, 2024, 07:58:15 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on June 01, 2024, 10:40:10 AMIt doesn't work anyhow.  I've been trying to teach my players the lesson "if you act like an evil idiot in town you will die" for years and it's never sunk in.

Yeah, it's exasperating to me, but there's no escaping the fact that a lot of players go to roleplaying games expressly to be free of moral consequences.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as don't get mad at the in game consequences of stupidity. In my campaigns, anyone who wants a chance of seeing level 2 learns that real quick.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on June 03, 2024, 01:23:49 PMCue Drinker: THE MESSAGE

Love the Critical Drinker!

"That's all I have for today....Go away now!"

Most of my games are based on actual historical eras and reflect the morals and values of the age they are set in. One of the things I like about the German rpg The Dark Eye is that its setting Aventuria is ruthless in this regard. "Democracy" is considered "demoncracy" and your character better know his or her place in the social hierarchy. It's therefore beneficial if at least one person in the party is a noble, a mage, a priest, or an army officer.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 05, 2024, 12:42:05 PMMost of my games are based on actual historical eras and reflect the morals and values of the age they are set in. One of the things I like about the German rpg The Dark Eye is that its setting Aventuria is ruthless in this regard. "Democracy" is considered "demoncracy" and your character better know his or her place in the social hierarchy. It's therefore beneficial if at least one person in the party is a noble, a mage, a priest, or an army officer.

There's a difference between having characters act in historically plausible ways, and making the game actually themed around lessons from the times.

Tolkien, say, wrote about a stratified society with kings and nobles -- but the themes of his works tended to celebrate commoners more than kings, which is not a very medieval theme. Historical fiction and fantasy almost always have themes more from the values from times of the author, rather than from the period it is set in. This goes back a while. Le Morte d'Arthur reflects 15th-century French values far more than 6th-century England, for example.