Quote from: yosemitemike on May 31, 2024, 07:43:58 PMThe first time you tried to use this as an argument can be explained by ignorance of the lore.  Since then, someone has explained that these male models are not part of the Adepta Sororitas.  Now you're just being disingenuous.

Those models are not Adepta Sororitas.  The Sororitas is a specific organization that is part of the Ecclesiarchy.  They exist because the Ecclesiarchy is forbidden yo have "men under arms".  They got around this by having an all female militant arm.  There are no male Sororitas models.  There can't be.  If GW actually added any male Sororitas, which they haven't, people would be up in arms about that too.

I rejected your excuse because it is obviously untrue. The PenItent Engines, Missionaries, and Preachers are clearly sold as part of the faction's units. They are the reality that exists within the faction.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 07:59:20 PMI rejected your excuse because it is obviously untrue. The PenItent Engines, Missionaries, and Preachers are clearly sold as part of the faction's units. They are the reality that exists within the faction.

Servitors are in the Space Marines list and sold as part of the faction.  Are servitors Space Marines?  No, they are not.

It's not an excuse.  It's what both the lore and rules say.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 07:59:20 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 31, 2024, 07:43:58 PMThe first time you tried to use this as an argument can be explained by ignorance of the lore.  Since then, someone has explained that these male models are not part of the Adepta Sororitas.  Now you're just being disingenuous.

Those models are not Adepta Sororitas.  The Sororitas is a specific organization that is part of the Ecclesiarchy.  They exist because the Ecclesiarchy is forbidden yo have "men under arms".  They got around this by having an all female militant arm.  There are no male Sororitas models.  There can't be.  If GW actually added any male Sororitas, which they haven't, people would be up in arms about that too.

I rejected your excuse because it is obviously untrue. The PenItent Engines, Missionaries, and Preachers are clearly sold as part of the faction's units. They are the reality that exists within the faction.

Now you're just being obstinate.

Preachers, Confessors and Missionaries were in the army from day one.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Sisters_of_Battle_(2nd_Edition)

They're described as Eccesiarchy units and not Sisters of Battle.

I'm starting to suspect you're arguing just to argue.

And what I see here are a bunch of hypocritical excuses to try and cover for blatant sexism and misogyny.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 09:01:34 PMAnd what I see here are a bunch of hypocritical excuses to try and cover for blatant sexism and misogyny.

And now the tourist resorts to accusations of istophobia, fuck of you Progtard.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 09:01:34 PMAnd what I see here are a bunch of hypocritical excuses to try and cover for blatant sexism and misogyny.

40k has always had women characters. The fans loved it because it was part of the lore and "feel" of the setting.
Activists try to shoehorn in forced diversity and ideology and call "sexism" and "misogyny" when called out on their bullshit.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 09:01:34 PMAnd what I see here are a bunch of hypocritical excuses to try and cover for blatant sexism and misogyny.

The idea that everyone is okay with Adepta Sororitas male models has been debunked since there are no Adepta Sororitas male models.  That means that the hypocrisy you are talking about doesn't exist.  Somehow, your conclusion remains unchanged though.  That tells me you are going to draw that conclusion no matter what.

You seem to think I'm on the side of the activists. I'm not. I hate the despoiling of established lore as much as anyone else does.

But I also see the need for lore to grow and be refined over time. Because staying static kills a property.

I'm split at the moment on whether the Custodes thing is actual dispoiling of the lore or whether it is simple growth and refinement.

Botton line. There are always going to be those who scream bloody murder when anything changes and no longer conforms to their childhood memories.

And honestly? I'm not that attached to 40k as to get that emotional about it.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMBut I also see the need for lore to grow and be refined over time. Because staying static kills a property.

Agreed. Remember that Space Marines were originally grown men, usually hardened criminals, that were altered to become Space Marines. Compare that to the current version where young boys are selected for the process because anyone past the very beginning of adolescence is too old to successfully become a Space Marine.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMYou seem to think I'm on the side of the activists. I'm not. I hate the despoiling of established lore as much as anyone else does.

Gee, I wonder what could have given anyone THAT impression!

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMBut I also see the need for lore to grow and be refined over time. Because staying static kills a property.

Preparing to introduce the motte & bailey I see.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMI'm split at the moment on whether the Custodes thing is actual dispoiling of the lore or whether it is simple growth and refinement.

Perfect! Now we have our motte (growth & Refinement) & bailey (despoiling), so we can safelly talk out both sides of our mouth.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMBotton line. There are always going to be those who scream bloody murder when anything changes and no longer conforms to their childhood memories.

So now you're either a muhsoggykneest, sexismist or an angry manchild if you don't agree with the tourist, you wouldn't want to be called those bad words would you?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMAnd honestly? I'm not that attached to 40k as to get that emotional about it.

The tourist admitting he's a tourist without using the word tourist and making an appeal to irrelevance. Who are you trying to fool?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 02:52:43 AMI'm new to 40k. That's one thing I should have made clear. It's something I'm exploring getting into.

If it's not that important and you don't really care because you're not a manchild whose emotionally attached to it... Why do you call names those who don't agree with you?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMYou seem to think I'm on the side of the activists. I'm not. I hate the despoiling of established lore as much as anyone else does.

But I also see the need for lore to grow and be refined over time. Because staying static kills a property.

I'm split at the moment on whether the Custodes thing is actual dispoiling of the lore or whether it is simple growth and refinement.

Botton line. There are always going to be those who scream bloody murder when anything changes and no longer conforms to their childhood memories.

And honestly? I'm not that attached to 40k as to get that emotional about it.

I don't care too much because a lot of modern entertainment has been crappified by activists. This is just another franchise being sacrificed to the god of "progressivism". I do have opinions and comments because I used to be a fan and could be again if GW pulls their heads out of their asses.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on June 01, 2024, 09:00:51 AMYou seem to think I'm on the side of the activists. I'm not. I hate the despoiling of established lore as much as anyone else does.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 31, 2024, 09:01:34 PMAnd what I see here are a bunch of hypocritical excuses to try and cover for blatant sexism and misogyny.

Hmmm.  If you're not an activist, then why are you parroting their slurs and talking points?  Why then, when I asked what your point was, didn't you lead with this statement?

You've admitted that you don't play WH40K:

QuoteI'm new to 40k. That's one thing I should have made clear. It's something I'm exploring getting into.

So you're not a player, you're not an established fan, you're not a member of the core audience that has made the franchise successful in the past.  What does that make you?  Sounds like an "activist" to me...

Funny thing, I showed this conversation to a friend of mine who has drifted in and out of the WH40K scene and was wondering why the pushback against the female Custodes was getting way more press than usual.  I pointed out that WH40K is in the crosshairs of the activists and their boot-lickers, so now they needed to refine their talking points to try and apply the most effective pressure.  He his response after reading your posts, "And this is why gatekeeping exists and is a good thing in hobbies.  Sometimes you have to fire a customer in order to save the rest of them..."

Quote from: Eirikrautha on June 01, 2024, 04:57:17 PM"And this is why gatekeeping exists and is a good thing in hobbies.  Sometimes you have to fire a customer in order to save the rest of them..."

Yes, well, they seem ready and willing to fire those that are dead set against the changes they are making, so they agree with you. Oh, wait, you thought you were onthe winning side? Silly boy.

Quote from: HappyDaze on June 01, 2024, 09:51:38 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on June 01, 2024, 04:57:17 PM"And this is why gatekeeping exists and is a good thing in hobbies.  Sometimes you have to fire a customer in order to save the rest of them..."

Yes, well, they seem ready and willing to fire those that are dead set against the changes they are making, so they agree with you. Oh, wait, you thought you were onthe winning side? Silly boy.

The winning side is the last one standing holding the bag of gold.

Go ask Disney how much are they winning after firing their true fans.

Ditto for the Video Gaming Industry, DC, Dr Who...

Quote from: HappyDaze on June 01, 2024, 09:51:38 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on June 01, 2024, 04:57:17 PM"And this is why gatekeeping exists and is a good thing in hobbies.  Sometimes you have to fire a customer in order to save the rest of them..."

Yes, well, they seem ready and willing to fire those that are dead set against the changes they are making, so they agree with you. Oh, wait, you thought you were onthe winning side? Silly boy.

At the end of the day, the "winning" side is the one that makes money.  As Bud Lite, Disney, Dr. Who, et al., have found out, firing existing customers in the hopes of attracting new customers seldom results in more profit.  If WH40K rakes in the cash, then they will have made the right decision.  But their stock price seems to agree with us more than you...