So the group I'm running leans more in the narrative play / story game side, and I'm tired of either playing story games I dislike such as BitD, or trying to force them to enjoy OSR games. I think a decent medium would be Call of Cthulhu, and I decided to build up the running Beyond the Mountains of Madness, since I've heard that's one of the best ones, and I enjoyed Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness. I've never really ran an adventure out of a book before, so I'm interested in giving this a shot, but I think I need some practice going into it.

Right now, my working plan is to use the quickstart guide and play the one shot that's in the back of it. If that's not a total dumpster fire, I'll buy the starter set, and we'll run through a few of the scenarios in that. I'm wondering then, if I'll be able to run BtMoM using just the starter set, or if I absolutely need the keepers and/or players tome for it. I also already bought BtMoM, and have been skimming it, it's mentioned that I might want to incorporate Pulp Cthulhu as well, but it sounds like that makes the characters more powerful, which I'm not particularly interested in, but if it's a great boon to the game overall I might consider it.

So, have any of yall experience with the CoC7th Starter set as compared to the full game? Do you think I could get away with playing BtMoM with just it, or am I going to have to bite the bullet and get the whole shebang? If I absolutely need the keepers tome, is it worth skipping the starter set and jumping right into the deep end? If so, does the KT have a few adventures in it to practice with before jumping into the big one, or would I need to find those elsewhere?

The Quick Start Rules are free.  You could start playing with the included scenario, The Haunting.  If you are into maps, Lovemaps has a great one for The Haunting.

After that, I would get the Keeper's Rulebook and the Investigator's Handbook.

The Starter Set is fine, but basically it is more valuable for the scenarios than the rule content that is repeated from the Quick Start and core books.

Use The Dhole's House www.dholeshouse.org to assist in character creation.  I found that easier for new players.

The Keeper's Rulebook does have some scenarios, Amidst the Ancient Trees and Crimson Letters, but there are better ones out there IMHO.

Quote from: Vanadium Angel on May 21, 2024, 01:48:23 PMAfter that, I would get the Keeper's Rulebook and the Investigator's Handbook.

The Starter Set is fine, but basically it is more valuable for the scenarios than the rule content that is repeated from the Quick Start and core books.

That's kinda what I was afraid of, I was just wondering iif I could get away with just getting the starter set instead of needing the core books, especially since the scenario I want to run was written for an old version, so I might not miss the full rules as much.

If I do get the Keeper's Tome, is the Investigators Tome really required? From descriptions I've seen, it's mostly just character options, so can the game be run okay without it?

I played with just the Quickstart Rules with 7E for many months before the full set came out. I think it's fine to use just those. You miss a few things, but especially if your players are interested in it more for narrative, then using just those is fine.

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The Keeper's Tome has the complete rules - but almost all of it isn't necessary for a given game. The Investigator's Handbook overlaps with the Keeper's Tome, adding a few more PC options. It's not required.

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So you have Beyond the Mountains of Madness for a previous edition, as I understand it? That's what I have. Also, I played with the original author of it for many years, but she never ran us through it. (She actually started a plan to rerun it, but then she moved away.) I think it's excellent core material, but it's a bit of a tough read.

1) If you're new to CoC, you might want to run a short scenario or three first before diving into the full campaign.

2) The earlier editions have to be converted to 7E - the most important being that stats convert from 1-20 to 1-100. It's a bit of work, but not too tough.

3) The BtMoM campaign book includes game stats for all the NPCs and creatures, but a handful of these have references to spells that are only in the Keeper's Tome. You could probably get just the spell descriptions online.

4) I'd really read ahead in the BtMoM book. There's a lot of material there, but like with most published modules, it won't necessarily survive contact with the players. Read ahead and get a good familiarity with each section before running it.

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PMI played with just the Quickstart Rules with 7E for many months before the full set came out. I think it's fine to use just those. You miss a few things, but especially if your players are interested in it more for narrative, then using just those is fine.

The free quickstart or the 10 clam starter set? I downloaded the quickstart and while I can see running a one shot or two with it, I don't think I could run anything more indepth than that with it, it doesn't even have character creation. I was kinda hoping to get away with just using the starter set, since it's cheap.

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PMThe Keeper's Tome has the complete rules - but almost all of it isn't necessary for a given game. The Investigator's Handbook overlaps with the Keeper's Tome, adding a few more PC options. It's not required.

That's about what I was hoping.

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PMSo you have Beyond the Mountains of Madness for a previous edition, as I understand it? That's what I have.

I just got the Beyond the Mountains of Madness available on DriveThru. It's been reprinted but not really updated, and I found the free conversion rules.

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PM1) If you're new to CoC, you might want to run a short scenario or three first before diving into the full campaign.

Definitely, that's one of teh resons I was interested in the starter set, since it comes with a few of those

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PM3) The BtMoM campaign book includes game stats for all the NPCs and creatures, but a handful of these have references to spells that are only in the Keeper's Tome. You could probably get just the spell descriptions online.

Yea, probably, not too worried about that.

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PM4) I'd really read ahead in the BtMoM book. There's a lot of material there, but like with most published modules, it won't necessarily survive contact with the players. Read ahead and get a good familiarity with each section before running it.

100%, that's why I bought it so early. I'm probably not even going to get to start running it for a month or 2 at least, so I've got time to read well ahead.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on May 21, 2024, 04:32:12 PM

Quote from: jhkim on May 21, 2024, 03:24:00 PMI played with just the Quickstart Rules with 7E for many months before the full set came out. I think it's fine to use just those. You miss a few things, but especially if your players are interested in it more for narrative, then using just those is fine.

The free quickstart or the 10 clam starter set? I downloaded the quickstart and while I can see running a one shot or two with it, I don't think I could run anything more indepth than that with it, it doesn't even have character creation. I was kinda hoping to get away with just using the starter set, since it's cheap.

Interesting. I just looked up the free quickstart rules I have. They're from 2013, and include a simplified version of character generation -- but the currently-available quickstart is different, and was evidently rewritten to only use pregens.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Starter Set. I would think the rules are sufficient. It includes three scenarios -- "Paper Chase", "Edge of Darkness", and "Dead Man Stomp" -- but I'm also not familiar with those.

I'd run a scenario or two out of the Starter Set, see how it goes, and then ask further from there. Call of Cthulhu has some great scenarios over decades, so if the Starter Set is disappointing, I'd look for alternate recommendations.

If nothing else, just get the Quick Start, run The Haunting and The Lightless Beacon (all free), then tell us what you thought of them.  You may have a completely different perspective or more questions.

I have the Quick Start from 2016 and it has options for character creation.  Limited, but it is there.

I modified 'The Haunting' to run it as my girls' first full adventure for the CoC DG mash up (change the city and the dates from the 20/30s to 1990s, and it was GREAT for them to learn the system and get a feel for the game. They loved it.

I then ran a few self made adventures for them and then ran them through 'Dead Lights' again modified for modern dates v the btb 1920/30s. Again they loved it

With that, I'd say give them a few games to get a feel for the system. Maybe even do an adventure or 2 with pregens etc. That way if they mess up and die, it isn't a PC they took the time needed to make a character / a character made for the campaign. I know that it can be a shock for players used to D&D type games on how dangerous combat can be and how LITTLE healing there is. Plus they can get the feel for different types of characters by playing a few one shots with pregens before they put the time and effort into making their real characters.

As for the campaign. I have it but have never ran it, or really any large CoC/DG campaign, but it is one of may favorite Lovecraft stories (I tend to lean more toward the Poe level of horror than Lovecraft)

Good luck when you run it & keep us updated as you run it (I'll be envious!)

So taking a quick look:

Quote from: CoC Starter Set Book 2, page 6The following investigator creation process is a simplified
version, designed to get you up and running as quickly as
possible. A more detailed process, with many more options
to fashion investigators, can be found in the Call of Cthulhu
Keeper Rulebook and Investigator Handbook.

page 6 to page 13 is your character creation, it covers attributes, skills and notes a few "occupations" with suggested skills. So this is the basics with enough to do some customization. The set includes a handful of pregens too.

I haven't played any 7th edition CoC yet myself, so can't speak more generally but if you have specific question I'd be happy to look through the books.
(We distribute them to game stores in Canada, and sell direct too.)

If you want visual aids for this adventure, be sure to check out Francois Baranger's illustrations.  His two-volume set for At the Mountains of Madness is kind of expensive, but you can probably find scans online for many of the illustrations.

Quote from: Vanadium Angel on May 21, 2024, 05:05:23 PMIf nothing else, just get the Quick Start, run The Haunting and The Lightless Beacon (all free), then tell us what you thought of them.  You may have a completely different perspective or more questions.

I have the Quick Start from 2016 and it has options for character creation.  Limited, but it is there.

I see, I only had the 2021 quickstart, which only had pregens, but I found the 2016 one, and it does have basic Char Creation, thanks.

Quote from: Thondor on May 21, 2024, 08:43:29 PMpage 6 to page 13 is your character creation, it covers attributes, skills and notes a few "occupations" with suggested skills. So this is the basics with enough to do some customization. The set includes a handful of pregens too.

I found the free quickstart you're talking about, between that and the newer one I had already, I can definitely run a couple one shots with pregens, to get a feel for the system.

Quote from: Lurker on May 21, 2024, 07:50:51 PMThat way if they mess up and die, it isn't a PC they took the time needed to make a character / a character made for the campaign. I know that it can be a shock for players used to D&D type games on how dangerous combat can be and how LITTLE healing there is. Plus they can get the feel for different types of characters by playing a few one shots with pregens before they put the time and effort into making their real characters.

That's one thing good about this group, while we haven't had a lot of characters die, they're definitely on board with more lethal games. Every time we start a new system we talk about how it's going to be more lethal and we're going to have to make a bunch of new characters, and it tends to just not work out that way. kek.

Quote from: Lurker on May 21, 2024, 07:50:51 PMAs for the campaign. I have it but have never ran it, or really any large CoC/DG campaign, but it is one of may favorite Lovecraft stories (I tend to lean more toward the Poe level of horror than Lovecraft)

Good luck when you run it & keep us updated as you run it (I'll be envious!)

Yea, I'll def keep yall posted, I'm sure I'll have better questions after I've got a few games under me. Mostly I'll be asking if I should get the starter set, or just skip right to the keepers tome.