Yeah I'm with you on Modiphius. While I detest their system, their books are solid source material for Savage Worlds conversion.

The 2d20 system falls utterly flat for me, for whatever reason it just fails to click in a good way for me and I can't precisely pinpoint why.  SW feels better to me as a system to such a degree that I'd rather do something like Fallout hacked into SW than try to play a Modiphius book custom-written for the setting.  I'll grant that Modiphius has top-notch art and overall presentation, but that's all just icing on the cake.  A snazzy book doesn't make up for middling mechanics.

Yeah it is really strange to me people with the money for IP and good artists seemed to have lost the account numbers when it came time to hire a game designer for a system.

Quote from: oggsmash on April 27, 2024, 09:47:27 AMYeah it is really strange to me people with the money for IP and good artists seemed to have lost the account numbers when it came time to hire a game designer for a system.

My experience with RPGs based on licensed IPs is that, unless the IP itself is fairly moribund (ex. WEG licensed the Star Wars IP in 1987) the main concern isn't actually to create a good game, it's to cash in on a hot IP.

Good art is more valuable than good rules because fans of the IP will often pick up things like a slick-looking book with no intention of ever actually playing the game.

Paying for good game design is just an unneeded expense when that's your goal.

By contrast, doing a game based on a moribund IP is generally going to be a labor of love because the designer wants to play in a setting they're personally a fan of and so will care more about the rules properly reflecting the setting.

It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but it is a good guideline I've found.

I generally agree with all of you.

SW is a toolkit system for GM's that really like to be hand's on. Or for GM's that like doing fast and dirty just wanting to get into the mix with little mechanical overhead.

But defacto, SW has a history for being one of the best and easiest systems to convert to. One thing feeds the other. So if your favorite IP is out there and you wanna riff on it, or rip it whole-cloth for your table, Savage Worlds is an easy choice to do it with. With the Companion book series almost done, you literally can do very reliable games in any genre and sub-genre with just a little bit of effort - which is effectively ubiquitous to Savage Worlds GM's that enjoy the system.

Insofar that buying a licensed product for the purposes of conversion is an option, of course it depends on your disposable income (which is always a factor in this hobby of casual collectors that collect as often as they play), and of course the quality of the licensed book itself.

I'm a details guy when it comes to setting up my homebrews and conversions. So I'm always looking for something I might miss, especially when I might be a relatively casual fan of an IP - but i'm interested in diving in. Anything that's going to give me a leg up for the purposes of a conversion, providing its a good resource, is always invaluable for someone like me that is generally very busy.

Fallout is something I've played through up to Fallout 4, I still consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the setting, but I'm not a mega-deep into the lore. I could do a conversion fairly easily without the Modiphius edition, but I'm kinda interested to see what they got inside. I doubt I'd buy the book, but I'd probably be up for the PDF. I've seen enough in-depth reviews of their 2d20 system to know I'd *never* run a Modiphius game, but not gonna lie - they got a lot of licenses that I am very interested in.

Savage Worlds is hongry to devour them and convert them.

I really like the 2d20 Conan game and I like the lighter John Carter version as well.  The 2d20 system doesn't seem right to me for Star Trek when I tried it.  The Dishonored game and Home World were phoned in and Dune is an abomination.

In the same vein, I love Deadlands.  Some of the settings for SWADE are good, some meh, and some are just trash.  All just my opinion of course. 

2d20 and SWADE are two different animals for two different kinds of play.  I don't think any system will ever be my universal game and I wish that they would quit trying.  Trying to make an "any setting" game makes everything taste like gas station sandwiches. 

Good mechanics can be adapted though.  I point to Neon Blood as a really good example of the OSR type d20 being adapted well.  Those that play OSR games will be very comfortable with the rules but will definitely see how the mechanics they are familiar with have been altered to work with the game.

tenbones, I have some of the Modiphius Fallout books and I don't think that's the best way to go.  Lookn at the Nukapedia website instead.  Somewhere out there you can find a digital copy of the Vault Tech notes and the Fallout Bible.  The Modiphius books are very light on the Interplay/Black Isle/Obsidian lore and very heavy on the Bethesda take on the setting.   

Any signs of woke dogshit ruining yet anywhere product??

We do not have the final product yet.

Savage Worlds has generally been pretty good about Woke shit. Their only real hubub was Deadlands Confederacy retcon which caused people that don't really play Deadlands to freak out.

The Retcon was that the Confederacy actually loses and falls in 1871. People got their panties in a knot because at the time the Woke mind-virus was peaking and everyone assumed it was Pinnacle caving in.

According to the Pinnacle - it has to do with their revamp to their entire product line where they're merging their Weird Wars line and Deadlands. Their upcoming setting Weird Wars: Dark Ages has their villain (the main villain in Deadlands) cause an event that "ripples through time" which effects their other lines in subtle ways.

I found it... interesting... from a couple of points. 1) they didn't fundamentally change anything about Deadlands (other than the mechanics to bring them in line with SWADE 2) For people losing their shit about the Confederacy, they seem to forget that the Deadlands Confederacy lasted longer than the actual real Confederacy but want to insist this was a Woke move. I don't see it that way, personally. You can still play with all the old Edges/Hindrances.

Other than that* Pinnacle is pretty non-political.

* I don't consider this political at all, it's a narrative shift due to their pivot in designing their other products to bring them in-line with one another. Just bad timing. They'd been talking about this event for a long time before the Woke virus went wild. I take the publisher at their word. If they inserted Woke bullshit into their products, I'd immediately stop buying them. But as in all things - I'm open for everyone, including Pinnacle, to do something stupid. So far, so good.

Quote from: tenbones on May 01, 2024, 10:46:15 AMWe do not have the final product yet.

Savage Worlds has generally been pretty good about Woke shit. Their only real hubub was Deadlands Confederacy retcon which caused people that don't really play Deadlands to freak out.

I think it was a stupid move to try to appease the people who don't even play the game.  Doesn't matter to me.  Because of it I just won't play Deadlands.

There's also the art censorship. I don't like SWADE so I wasn't there to see the Rifts Kickstarter kerfuffle, but I was active on PEG's forums when they caved to the woke agitators over the previous Science Fiction Companion's cover. Apparently, carrying around a book with a picture of a fully-clothed woman is akin to waving around hardcore pornography, so we can't have that.

Oh they definitely nerfed Red's wardrobe.  They even made her uglier in her face.  I think some of these troglodytes just hate beauty and goodness. 

Quote from: oggsmash on May 02, 2024, 10:02:40 AMOh they definitely nerfed Red's wardrobe.  They even made her uglier in her face.  I think some of these troglodytes just hate beauty and goodness. 

It's a trend that has infected all of gaming, sadly.

Quote from: GhostNinja on May 01, 2024, 11:28:02 AM

Quote from: tenbones on May 01, 2024, 10:46:15 AMWe do not have the final product yet.

Savage Worlds has generally been pretty good about Woke shit. Their only real hubub was Deadlands Confederacy retcon which caused people that don't really play Deadlands to freak out.

I think it was a stupid move to try to appease the people who don't even play the game.  Doesn't matter to me.  Because of it I just won't play Deadlands.

But that's just it - I take Shane at his word. The "retcon" didn't happen to appease anyone other than it made in-canon sense once they started tying Weird Wars to Deadlands.

I mean, the whole premise of the Confederacy in the original Deadlands was that they won Gettysburg because their dead rose from the ground and turned the tide of the battle for them.

The problem is the optics of people (including me) that engage in culture-war discussions assuming bad intentions from everyone. I know I took a long look at the situation, as someone heavily invested in Savage Worlds, because I *do* vote with my dollar. Just like I still own most of the full runs of Basic through 3e D&D, and World of Darkness through New World of Darkness which rest on my shelves - once the Woke Virus hit, I don't give those companies any of my money. I'm prepared to do that with Pinnacle too should the time come.

But at the same time - I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt with some basic logic. I'm perfectly fine with Shane's explanation (as well as the other Deadland's writers) who walked into this situation without taking a single step. The Situation(tm) came to them while they were in the process of doing a full redesign of their entire line of products. Not the other way around.

If people wanna be reactionary and presume the worst - then thats up to them but it's putting a different set of interests in front of the hobby itself. I'm not even saying it's not currently justified, but I want to give credit to everyone that we have reasonable bullshit-detectors. At some point we're here for gaming. I'm not looking to fight where there is no fight to be had.

Quote from: Brand55 on May 01, 2024, 02:37:19 PMThere's also the art censorship. I don't like SWADE so I wasn't there to see the Rifts Kickstarter kerfuffle, but I was active on PEG's forums when they caved to the woke agitators over the previous Science Fiction Companion's cover. Apparently, carrying around a book with a picture of a fully-clothed woman is akin to waving around hardcore pornography, so we can't have that.

This might be true. I actually didn't notice. To be honest - I've always thought that Savage World's art was meh. I don't demand eye-candy in all my books, but I want good art. If I can't get it, I'll ignore it, since I'm there for game-content.

I'd prefer big-titties and ass in my Fantasy books over my sci-fi, but that's just me. I'd take a badass motherfucker in power-armor on my sci-fi cover over a Deja Thoris inspired babe because of my tastes in sci-fi. Though I'm not going to dismiss her either. The usual rules apply.

I honestly don't know if they "caved" on the art. While it would be concern if they did (and said so - if they did let us know), it's not a dealbreaker for me since I've found the *vast* majority of their art forgettable in the first place. There are always exceptions to the general rule, but this is just my experience with their books.

Quote from: tenbones on May 02, 2024, 11:10:24 AM

Quote from: Brand55 on May 01, 2024, 02:37:19 PMThere's also the art censorship. I don't like SWADE so I wasn't there to see the Rifts Kickstarter kerfuffle, but I was active on PEG's forums when they caved to the woke agitators over the previous Science Fiction Companion's cover. Apparently, carrying around a book with a picture of a fully-clothed woman is akin to waving around hardcore pornography, so we can't have that.

This might be true. I actually didn't notice. To be honest - I've always thought that Savage World's art was meh. I don't demand eye-candy in all my books, but I want good art. If I can't get it, I'll ignore it, since I'm there for game-content.

I'd prefer big-titties and ass in my Fantasy books over my sci-fi, but that's just me. I'd take a badass motherfucker in power-armor on my sci-fi cover over a Deja Thoris inspired babe because of my tastes in sci-fi. Though I'm not going to dismiss her either. The usual rules apply.

I honestly don't know if they "caved" on the art. While it would be concern if they did (and said so - if they did let us know), it's not a dealbreaker for me since I've found the *vast* majority of their art forgettable in the first place. There are always exceptions to the general rule, but this is just my experience with their books.

  If you look at their iconic figure "Red", her wardrobe is drastically different in covers or anywhere she appears in the books now.  Her face even looks different, as I said they nerfed her all around.