Quote from: AkrasiaIt's impossible to 'join' Zoroastrianism.  You have to be born into it.

Sure, sure, that's what Jesus said about Christianity. :haw:

But there's a first time for everything.

I'd posit the problem with communist regimes is not the communism itslef, but rather the dictatorships communist revolutions inevitably turn into.  Marxist communism's problem isn't that it proscribes a leader like Stalin, but rather that it imagines that once the state is removed the need for the state will die.  This, of course, presupposes that the state is ever really removed in the first place.

Then again, I'm chairperson of the American Divine Right Party so what do I know?

There's also the Trotskyist Socialist Equality Party (SEP). They publish the World Socialist Website. A former colleague of mine writes for them.

Quote from: AkrasiaIt's impossible to 'join' Zoroastrianism.  You have to be born into it.

That's not true of all forms of Zoroastrianism.  There have been a few converts to it over time.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Thanatos02Er, he didn't join the Republican or Democratic party or anything. Cut the man some slack.

Melan's Hungarian. They weren't well-served by Marxist-Leninism, to say the least. His annoyance is understandable.

And yeah, it is worth pointing out that there are plenty of alternatives on the left that don't make you join in solidarity with a bunch of mass murdering bastards. Maoism and Marxist-Leninism do though.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineMelan's Hungarian. They weren't well-served by Marxist-Leninism, to say the least. His annoyance is understandable.

I'd say it was the Russians they weren't well-served by.

Quote from: droogI'd say it was the Russians they weren't well-served by.

It's like blaming democracy for all the trouble caused by American mischief...I mean foreign policy.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: PseudoephedrineMelan's Hungarian. They weren't well-served by Marxist-Leninism, to say the least. His annoyance is understandable.

To tell the truth, I am more amused than annoyed. As long as it is harmless and consensual, stupidity is funny. Moreover, as I wrote, being allowed to join a different party than an officially mandated one by virtue of democracy is seven kinds of ironic. Not as delightful as turning communist propaganda into an honest capitalist enterprise, but close enough.

Quote from: droogI'd say it was the Russians they weren't well-served by.

The domestic Marxist-Leninists and Stalinists weren't much better. Both schools of thought had already become ideologies, and in doing so, shaped the Russian and Hungarian historical situation, the motivations of the individuals and masses involved, and the means by which they could interact with one another.

Quote from: David RIt's like blaming democracy for all the trouble caused by American mischief...I mean foreign policy.

Regards,
David R

Democracy isn't a system of thought like Marxist-Leninism is. However, America's "civil religion" is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
http://web.archive.org/web/20050306124338/http://www.robertbellah.com/articles_5.htm

The American government has done many things based on its civil religion. The War of 1812 is one I'm particularly familiar with as a Canuck, but even into the modern day, the justifications provided for Iraq and Afghanistan come from it.

The trick is that your beliefs are part of your motivation to behave a certain way. Having Marxist-Leninist beliefs instead of American civil religion beliefs changes how one is motivated to act. In fact, that's one of the goals of Marxist thought - to provide people with a belief structure not beholden to bourgeois concerns so that they will act in a way that is not as awful as the bourgeois.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineDemocracy isn't a system of thought like Marxist-Leninism is. However, America's "civil religion" is.

Perhaps I should have said American style democracy... Democracy = America...is the perception out there (something the US cultivates or attempts to),even though nearly every democratic country in the world has their own particular brand. So when reality settles in after foreign policy has done it's work (in the service of democracy, or so we're told) there's a tendency to blame democracy (however one defines it) as a whole rather than the self interest of a particular nation.

Edit: I get the sinking feeling that we are talking past each other here Pseudoephedrine...I was commenting about the perceptions rather than the actual ideologies themselves.

Regards,
David R

I think the perceptions, if they aren't simply delusions and therefore of no real merit, must arise from the underlying structures of thought.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineI think the perceptions, if they aren't simply delusions and therefore of no real merit, must arise from the underlying structures of thought.

 Whatever.... Is there a quote generator on the web that spits stuff out like that ??

 Communism is BAD, Fascism is BAD as well

Quote from: KoltarWhatever.... Is there a quote generator on the web that spits stuff out like that ??

 Communism is BAD, Fascism is BAD as well

QuoteKoltar wrote here:
http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=121286#post121286
Capitalism is the natural friend of Freedom and democracy.

To restate: Fascism and communism ? They're both BAD.

GOOD = Hugs, making out and a good movie on a saturday night.

Underlying structures of thought or delusion :raise:

Regards,
David R