Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia. 

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

AD&D 2E is my favorite iteration of the game and the one I still play to this day. But I also like BECMI/RC.

As for the types of campaigns, it's always heroic fantasy / superversive fantasy, with a pinch of high fantasy.

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
It is a bit odd, that when people say 1st Edition; they aren't referring to the 1st Edition of the game.

If you tell people that you are playing 3rd Edition, most will assume that you meant 3.5; even though that's not what you said.

This is a strange hobby.

I blame TSR's marketing of AD&D vs whatever we're supposed to call non-"advanced" D&D (I used to call it "Basic" back in the day, but the OSR complicated things with OD&D, 0e, B/X, etc.). Now we're stuck calling whatever sprang after AD&D 2e "D&D 3e+" even though there's like 4 or 5 non "AD&D" editions of D&D.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia. 

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

I might lump AD&D 1e there too, since some in the OSR revere that as well and snub 2e. Though, I usually see "old" D&D used to refer to anything pre-3e (i.e. The Pinnacle of D&D).

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

I know, i waa beinf cheeky wirh acronyms

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

The impression I had at the time was that B/X was meant for the players to recreate their own version of The Fellowship of the Ring (which was just fine for someone who had just discovered the hobby) and then move on to AD&D.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 02:48:40 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
It is a bit odd, that when people say 1st Edition; they aren't referring to the 1st Edition of the game.

If you tell people that you are playing 3rd Edition, most will assume that you meant 3.5; even though that's not what you said.

This is a strange hobby.

I blame TSR's marketing of AD&D vs whatever we're supposed to call non-"advanced" D&D (I used to call it "Basic" back in the day, but the OSR complicated things with OD&D, 0e, B/X, etc.). Now we're stuck calling whatever sprang after AD&D 2e "D&D 3e+" even though there's like 4 or 5 non "AD&D" editions of D&D.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia. 

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

I might lump AD&D 1e there too, since some in the OSR revere that as well and snub 2e. Though, I usually see "old" D&D used to refer to anything pre-3e (i.e. The Pinnacle of D&D).

2E AD&D does appear to be treated like the stepchild of TSR, by the OSR.  Or rather, the stepchild of Gary Gygax.  TSR's swan song.  The Rules Cyclopedia was also of late vintage, too.

I'm going to buck the trend and say my favorite edition of official D&D is 4E with late 3.5e with only the tier 3-4 classes allowed as my runner up.

Allowing non-D&D... then my own system (which mechanically is a streamlined love child of the above minus the narrative-focused aspects of 4E) jumps to 1st place.

The closest my interests fall to OSR is Palladium Fantasy 1e, which would be in 4th place with Palladium Fantasy 2e in 5th. My dislike of TSR-era D&D* is such that "not gaming" actually ranks higher and so beyond that metric I'm really unable to rank them.

I realize this puts me well out of the norm for this forum, but who enjoys echo chambers anyway?

*I loved the Red Box back when I was 10 and was able to run it with a few kids in the back of the school bus during the hour long ride to/from school... but all things TSR-era died for me with the biblically awful DM I experienced a few years later (first group I'd found after moving to a new state) to the point that only discovering the Robotech RPG and expanding into the rest of Palladium's lines kept me from dropping gaming entirely. I didn't touch D&D again until 3e so D&D basically didn't exist for me from 1987-2000 (so all of middle school, high school and college).

Quote from: Brad on April 22, 2021, 09:32:22 AM

Quote from: Crusader X on April 21, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
So my ultimate D&D would largely be B/X, with the races and classes from the 1st edition AD&D PHB, while using a simple d20 roll-high mechanic for various tasks and skills.

So basically you want Castles & Crusades.

Maybe!  Its on my list of games to try out.  What are some of your favorite things about C&C?

For me D&D is the first rpg that was the gateway rpg to the hobby. I enjoy all editions with their merits and flaws.

As for D&D acronyms most players in the hobby really do not know them imo and most honestly don't care. Knowing all the acronyms does not get one laid, popular or any tangible benefits like medical insurance. Myself I knew of the existence of the Red Box and the other boxes, Rules Cyclopedia and First Edition and later editions of D&D. Others like OSCRic, White Box and others were new to me.

Two-way tie: Original D&D and 1e AD&D, up to some select bits of Unearthed Arcana, but not past that.

Quote from: sureshot on May 02, 2021, 09:56:48 PM
For me D&D is the first rpg that was the gateway rpg to the hobby. I enjoy all editions with their merits and flaws.

As for D&D acronyms most players in the hobby really do not know them imo and most honestly don't care. Knowing all the acronyms does not get one laid, popular or any tangible benefits like medical insurance. Myself I knew of the existence of the Red Box and the other boxes, Rules Cyclopedia and First Edition and later editions of D&D. Others like OSCRic, White Box and others were new to me.

I didn't even know of the existence of White Box and all that crap till I started dealing with the OSR online a few years ago. Red Box was the 1st D&D to me till then, and Rules Cyclopedia (the only one I ever owned at one point*) was just a compilation of Red Box & Co. I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

*I still have a PDF, but I used to own a hardcover back in the 90s, till I lend it to a Basic D&D aficionado then never saw it again.

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

Even though I'm not a fan, the box sets encapsulated tiers of play in a modular format.  It was a rather ingenious way to sneak in the complexity more gradually to those who didn't just jump on AD&D 1E. 

As far as no other RPGs doing this... I'd say that's not entirely being honest with what splat books are doing to the base game in modern editions or other systems.

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

I think Green Ronin did the same with DragonAGE.

The Games Workshop (UK) version of RQ 3rd edition did something similar back in the day with the "Runequest" and "Advanced Runequest" books.

Not saying it's a good idea from a game design perspective, but it probably sells more product to kids. One Basic D&D set is an easier convince /  pocket money target than all three of a PHB, DMG and MM.

Quote from: Palleon on May 03, 2021, 09:22:36 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

Even though I'm not a fan, the box sets encapsulated tiers of play in a modular format.  It was a rather ingenious way to sneak in the complexity more gradually to those who didn't just jump on AD&D 1E. 

As far as no other RPGs doing this... I'd say that's not entirely being honest with what splat books are doing to the base game in modern editions or other systems.

There's a difference between splat books with optional material that expand on what you do can do with the game without being required to experience the full range of game play covered by the core rules (what every other game does), and the core system itself being broken down into multiple supplements you have to get to unlock the entire core engine. Even taking "epic level" supplements of later editions into account, those at least deal with levels of play most game groups never even reach and are all covered in a single supplement, rather than multiple progressively higher level supplements to cover the full game.

I'm also not sure how breaking up the level range into multiple supplements simplifies things, vs having a single full level table from the get go to give you full visibility of what progression is like. It's not like characters get THAT much stuff on level up in Basic D&D. They barely get squat. Most levels they only get an extra HD. By 5e, every single class level gives you one fiddly feature, yet they managed to cram all that into a single book.