Quote from: RandyB on March 21, 2021, 03:33:33 PM

Quote from: Brad on March 20, 2021, 06:52:49 PM
It's amazing that someone who is such a massive Luddite also wrote some of the most technology-based RPGs ever. Maybe there's a lesson in there...

Once you reach a certain level of understanding of technology, Ludditism becomes more and more attractive. Ask anyone who works in IT infrastructure or cybersecurity. And ignore the software devs. They don't understand the tech; they cargo-cult.

As someone with a masters in computer engineering whose day job title is CTO, working on my PhD in CS, I can do nothing other than nod in amusement.

Quote from: thedungeondelver on March 21, 2021, 09:11:27 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 19, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Any guesses on how Siembeida will mess this up? 

All of it.  All the ways.  All of them.  Every way possible.

And then he'll blame, in no specific order:

- Adobe
- Fantasy Grounds
- Microsoft (or Apple; he gives off that "We only use Powermacs running OS 9.x" vibe)
- Everyone else on the internet
- some stupid bastard who tied himself to the mast of the SS Palladium in an attempt to gain experience and work history in RPGs
- Usenet groups
- You
- Me

...but what he absolutely, positively will not do is take any blame himself.

Look no further than the $1.4 million that was squandered and the web of lies and blame Unca Kevvy laid out for years with the Robotech Kickstarter.

Quote from: JeffB on March 21, 2021, 09:47:45 AM
The Hobby could use more Kevins and less WOTC/Paizos.

Except what has Kevin done lately?

Maybe a Kevin from 30 years ago.

Quote from: sureshot on March 21, 2021, 08:10:01 PM

Quote from: JeffB on March 21, 2021, 09:47:45 AM
The Hobby could use more Kevins and less WOTC/Paizos.

-Ignores books the fans want and release something that only he, the freelancer and a few fans want like Rifts Antarctica that imo no one was really interested in.

Wait? When did they release Rifts Antarctica? I still have the manuscript for Rifts Arctic Circle that the designer just said screw this, quit game design totally and handed me the whole thing to illustrate. Been poking at it for years now as time allows.

This is the real problem with Kev and its a known recurring one. He has this weird Jeckyl/Hyde thing with freelancers and even employees where hes your bestest friend ever... till hes not. I still have saved a long conversation with Coffin and a few others who had lots to say on the ups and downs of working with Kev.

My mistake on pre-order:

https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/898-Rifts-World-Book-Antarctica.html

Given how late Mechanoids Space and the two BTS2 books are late. Yet Antarctica is more of priority.

We are finally getting Lazlo yet they even messed that up.

Quote from: sureshot on March 22, 2021, 09:06:06 AM
My mistake on pre-order:

https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/898-Rifts-World-Book-Antarctica.html

Given how late Mechanoids Space and the two BTS2 books are late. Yet Antarctica is more of priority.

We are finally getting Lazlo yet they even messed that up.

Never pre-order, never kickstart, never crowdfund. Buy things off the shelf when they're done. This applies to every type of product, but in this case, especially Palladium who have a track record of dropping balls, missing deadlines, and killing projects.

Quote from: RandyB on March 21, 2021, 03:33:33 PM

Quote from: Brad on March 20, 2021, 06:52:49 PM
It's amazing that someone who is such a massive Luddite also wrote some of the most technology-based RPGs ever. Maybe there's a lesson in there...

Once you reach a certain level of understanding of technology, Ludditism becomes more and more attractive. Ask anyone who works in IT infrastructure or cybersecurity. And ignore the software devs. They don't understand the tech; they cargo-cult.

This is very, very true. I've been dealing with the bureaucratic side of IT as of late and I wish I could get people to sign something. You know, with ink. And use white out to fix a mistake. I have long thought that offices with a little old lady who did the accounts book by hand is something worth returning to, instead of the ERP mammoths that arise in her stead.

Are the Palladium rules as bad as TBP would insist they are?

Quote from: Shasarak on March 21, 2021, 11:20:20 PM

Quote from: JeffB on March 21, 2021, 09:47:45 AM
The Hobby could use more Kevins and less WOTC/Paizos.

Except what has Kevin done lately?

Maybe a Kevin from 30 years ago.

RIFTS Bestiary One and Garden of the Gods look pretty awesome from my browsing!

As far as they way he has run his business- If that is what you mean- I don't have any personal negative issues/dealings with him/the company. I've enjoyed the products- the manner in which they are written, the production style, and the bang for the buck. As @Brad mentioned, he seems to absolutely love what he is doing, and really wants to share his creativity with everyone. I'd rather deal with the quirks of a hobbyist from the old days running his own small business, than a corporate lifestyle brand. YMMV.

Quote from: RandyB on March 21, 2021, 03:33:33 PM

Once you reach a certain level of understanding of technology, Ludditism becomes more and more attractive. Ask anyone who works in IT infrastructure or cybersecurity. And ignore the software devs. They don't understand the tech; they cargo-cult.

A lot of software devs would agree with your point.  I'm one of them.  I keep my games as tech free as possible, and I'm not the only one in my organization who does so, either.

Quote from: horsesoldier on March 22, 2021, 10:46:34 AM
Are the Palladium rules as bad as TBP would insist they are?

I don't know what they say there, but the rules suck goat balls in July.

Quote from: horsesoldier on March 22, 2021, 10:46:34 AM
Are the Palladium rules as bad as TBP would insist they are?

It's a mixed bag. Palladium is notorious for being hacked together from all the RPGs, sometimes literally cut and pasted. MDC rules are terribly wonky. Lots and lots of acronyms. PPE, ISP, MDC, SDC, etc. It's like a houseruled version of D&D, which it pretty much started out as, and collected decades of rulings turned into official rules. Combat is d20 based, and skills are d% based, which I find really clunky to use at the table, switching between resolution mechanics.

I've seen much worse. It's playable out of the box, but it screams out for house rules to tailor it to your play style. And I tend to want to use as few sourcebooks as possible, not only to prevent power creep, but to keep the tone of a campaign consistent.

Quote from: horsesoldier on March 22, 2021, 10:46:34 AM
Are the Palladium rules as bad as TBP would insist they are?

Depends on your definition of "bad" and, to an extent, which set of rules you're using as there have been variations over the years.

My personal feelings are that Palladium Fantasy 1e and Rifts Ultimate Edition are the two best iterations of the mechanics (RUE having finally found the right balance point between modern ranged attack and dodge modifiers, imho, and they finally dropped the 98% max on skills, just 99-00 is always a fail... but you can bump a skill above 98% to offset circumstance penalties).

That said, there is zero pretense at balance between options. Kevin has always leaned hard on the idea that real life isn't fair and mechanics should express a concept realistically rather than trying to throw in intangibles to counterbalance some things just flat out being better. So there are no hidden mechanics that will ever put a vagabond on par with a Rogue Scholar, much less a Ley Line Walker or Glitterboy Pilot. A Coalition SAMAS is going to be across the board superior to the Northern Gun's default power armor and superior at everything but raw speed against a Flying Titan armor.

Some things are better than others on that front. The mechanics are transparent enough that a GM and players can eyeball power levels and come to some agreements on available options if they choose; we got excellent mileage from sticking to mortals with OCCs from the core book and those with it being limited to light power armor or partial conversion borgs (so Headhunter OCC instead of Borg OCC).

The other thing that can affect the perception of "bad" is organization. The best Palladium books can be generously be described as haphazard in their organization. We're talking AD&D 1e DMG or worse in some cases. As such it runs best with a GM who really knows the system and/or is very good at improvising and as a player being willing to run with "rulings not rules" to smooth out the bumps (odds are there probably is a specific rule somewhere, it's just not often worth digging past the most common sections for it).

An in-depth editing pass by an outsider with a focus on organization would do WONDERS for the system and make it loads more playable. The mechanics in general are definitely old school feel relative to more modern unified mechanics with a focus on balance between PCs, but that can be a feature in and of itself for some.

TL;DR... Palladium rules are horribly organized and have zero pretense at balance, but aren't bad in and of themselves. I'd definitely take them over any AD&D/BECMI-based OSR system.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 22, 2021, 12:17:49 PM
That said, there is zero pretense at balance between options. Kevin has always leaned hard on the idea that real life isn't fair and mechanics should express a concept realistically rather than trying to throw in intangibles to counterbalance some things just flat out being better. So there are no hidden mechanics that will ever put a vagabond on par with a Rogue Scholar, much less a Ley Line Walker or Glitterboy Pilot. A Coalition SAMAS is going to be across the board superior to the Northern Gun's default power armor and superior at everything but raw speed against a Flying Titan armor.

I agree with his approach. Some GM guidance in the books would be nice, but we do have the GM Guide.
If you're running a combat heavy game, then the players are well advised to know that a Vagabond with a laser pistol is just not going to contribute like a Glitter Boy. But I really love the idea of an adventuring group that contains a wide level of types. Like Juicer, Vagabond, Mage and Psyker. Playing a game like that, combat should really be de-emphasized, and more emphasis on RP situations and problems that don't rely on having the biggest boom stick to resolve.

The thing to remember with Palladium is when you mention it almost everyone thinks of Rifts and only Rifts. The reason why this is an issue is the nature of what Rifts is and what the palladium system was designed to do.

Rifts is everything thrown together into one big pot (mecha, power armor, mages, psychics, ordinary people, magic items, monsters, demons, gods, etc)

The Palladium system was really created to run Fantasy (Palladium Fantasy 1st ed), and then had new bits tacked on for each new line (which came with small rule changes to existing material along the way).

Some examples of things added over time for different game lines.
SDC - added for Heroes Unlimited
PPE - added for Beyond the Supernatural
Mutant Animal creation - first appeared in Heroes unlimited but greatly expanded for TMNT
MDC - added for Robotech (to cover mecha and spacecraft)

Basically you are looking at nearly 10 years of minor changes and rule addons before Rifts was released in 1990.