Quote from: James J SkachDon't use the service that requires a ferret, latex gloves, a fudge sundae, and liberal amounts of vaseline...

Is the sundae for after...?

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiIs the sundae for after...?

You'd think that, wouldn't you?


You'd be a little naive, maybe, but you'd think that.


:eek:

Quote from: SeanchaiIs the sundae for after...?

Seanchai

I'm sorry.  CA has threatened...ahem...advised me that to say too much more would be a breach of trade secrets and "you don't want the ferret again, do you?" was how he put it.

Quote from: Thanatos02Pff, come on. For some people, it's an item of value to at least discuss. For JimBob, the point couldn't be any more moot. Motherfucker can't log onto Tang even if he wants to. I'd say the problem is solved for him, wouldn't you?

No. Because as I said, the dominance of Tangency Open affects the roleplaying discussions, which I can see, as they're public.

For example, if a roleplaying discussion starts up and someone posts obvious bullshit, no-one's allowed to call them on it. Why? Well, because people post stuff which might be bullshit on Tangency, or might not. "I am a child abuse survivor" or whatever. And that sort of thing, if you say you think it's bullshit, obviously it's going to hurt their feelings, and those of their online buddies. So the moderators say, "well, you can't go around telling people they're lying."

So, Ron Edwards says, "I've known over a hundred brain-damaged gamers", normally you'd expect to be able to say, "bullshit!" But because of moderation coming out of Tangency, you can't. So the Tangency moderation affects the roleplaying discussions.

That's just one small example, but there are many others. Just because I can't see Tangency doesn't mean I can't see its effects, which are to stifle a lot - not all, but a lot - of useful rpg discussion.

It's also a distraction for interesting posters. Every post (say) Balbinus makes on Tangency is one less he can make on roleplaying. Which is a waste. When there are so many good posters out there, I want to hear more from them.

Quote from: O'BorgFor me RPGs are a game, not some sort of religious observance. I talk to the other gamers I know about non-game stuff all the time. I dont ignore them in the street, junk their emails or refuse to talk to them outside of the couple of hours we sit around a table every few weeks and pretend we're adventuring heroes in another world.

They may not be close personal friends, but they arent mere acquaintences.

And I'm the same with the people I game with and know in person, too.

But here's the thing - I don't game with you guys. I don't know you. I never met you. You know when shewolf said how lots of those people on Tangency Open, she'd never met them, but they were her friends? I really felt sorry for her then. My heart went out to her. Because you can be friendly with someone who posts around you on a message board, but actual friends? No. Friendship's more intimate than that, much greater. It's like when you look at MySpace or Facebook or LJ or something and see Friends (235). I just think, "you poor lonely bastard."

I think there are quite a few people here or on other boards who if we met, we'd get along fine, and with time could be friends. People who seem to be intelligent, interesting, and have ideas different enough to mine to keep discussions going. People who seem to be decent and humane and quite likeable.

But I don't mistake a few posts in a few threads here and there across message boards for friendship, or for "more than acquaintance."

I think really this is a fundamental question for any message board. Do you want to be a "community", or do you want to talk about Topic X. Really you have to put one of those first. rpg.net's put the "community" part first, which is why it has all those posters in Tangency who have no interest in roleplaying.

Hey, man, whatever.

That's profound. Like totally dude.

Quote from: JimBobOzThat's profound. Like totally dude.

I'm not trying to be profound, or deep, or anything. I had a couple of options available to me, but for someone who seriously feels bad that people had friends on the internet, you're really fucking invested in a forum you can't even look at.

So, what am I supposed to think about that? Not too much, really, I decided. Did you expect for me to write a huge refutation or something? I'm not the one bent out of shape by it.

Quote from: J ArcaneAnd yet I've yet to find a single one, even on sites as large or larger than RPGnet, where there was a significant body (or hell even anybody at all), that expressly limited their posting to the off-topic forum, and in some cases didn't even have any interest in the actual on-topic discussion of the rest of the site.  

I have never seen a single board with such a pronounced divide amongst it's userbase.

There are also few websites who have been around, in one form or another, for as long as RPG.net has.  People have been there for YEARS - so, its only natural they form friendships, relationships, internal reference points and memes.  Its huge because its GROWN to be that.  Over many many years.  

Its still a site about RPGs, primarily.  Tang is huge, yes, but notice they don't have a Tangency Wiki going - or an official Tangency Index - or Tangency Reviews.  Its still focused on RPGs.  Shooting the shit and bitching about politics is a popular pasttime.

Quote from: JimBobOzNo. Because as I said, the dominance of Tangency Open affects the roleplaying discussions, which I can see, as they're public.

For example, if a roleplaying discussion starts up and someone posts obvious bullshit, no-one's allowed to call them on it. Why? Well, because people post stuff which might be bullshit on Tangency, or might not. "I am a child abuse survivor" or whatever. And that sort of thing, if you say you think it's bullshit, obviously it's going to hurt their feelings, and those of their online buddies. So the moderators say, "well, you can't go around telling people they're lying."

Umm...no?  You can call them on their bullshit - you just can't insult them while you do it.

QuoteSo, Ron Edwards says, "I've known over a hundred brain-damaged gamers", normally you'd expect to be able to say, "bullshit!" But because of moderation coming out of Tangency, you can't. So the Tangency moderation affects the roleplaying discussions.

Thats one of the most patently ridiculous things I've heard in a while...

QuoteIt's also a distraction for interesting posters. Every post (say) Balbinus makes on Tangency is one less he can make on roleplaying. Which is a waste. When there are so many good posters out there, I want to hear more from them.

So if he has nothing particular to say at the time but, say, has a bit to say on a certain political topic, he should just shut the fuck up?  People CHOOSE what to post about.  This is the one thing you can't get through your thick skull - its not one less post he can make on RPing - he's CHOOSING not to.  Or has nothing particularily worthwhile to say about RPing at that moment.

You want to take choice away from people, because you have a beef with Tang.

QuoteBut here's the thing - I don't game with you guys. I don't know you. I never met you. You know when shewolf said how lots of those people on Tangency Open, she'd never met them, but they were her friends? I really felt sorry for her then. My heart went out to her. Because you can be friendly with someone who posts around you on a message board, but actual friends? No. Friendship's more intimate than that, much greater. It's like when you look at MySpace or Facebook or LJ or something and see Friends (235). I just think, "you poor lonely bastard."

Bullshit.  You most certainly can.  Just because YOU don't, that doesn't mean its not worthy, or valid, for others.  Drop the sneering fucking condesencion.
Met my wife online, and the vast majority of her friends are online friends. That she talks to on various message boards, LJ, etc.  A whole bunch of them came to our wedding, and they are her best friends.  So fuck you.  You can't get friendly with people online, fine.  But don't sit on your high horse and sneer at people who DO make friends online, because you can't.

QuoteI think there are quite a few people here or on other boards who if we met, we'd get along fine, and with time could be friends. People who seem to be intelligent, interesting, and have ideas different enough to mine to keep discussions going. People who seem to be decent and humane and quite likeable.

But I don't mistake a few posts in a few threads here and there across message boards for friendship, or for "more than acquaintance."

I think really this is a fundamental question for any message board. Do you want to be a "community", or do you want to talk about Topic X. Really you have to put one of those first. rpg.net's put the "community" part first, which is why it has all those posters in Tangency who have no interest in roleplaying.

Whatever man.  You'd think a few years after someone got banned from a site, they'd fucking move on and let it go.  But man alive, that chip on your shoulder must be playing almighty FUCK with your posture.

Quote from: Hackmastergeneral....... and bitching about politics is a popular pasttime.

 Its also an extremely pointless and boring thing to post about - to a gaming forum.
It Would make more sense for all those who are supposedly interested in politics ...to get up, walk away from their computers...then go outside of their houses and help the local political party or cauise that interests them.

- Ed C.

Hackmastergeneral, I don't doubt that you've established excellent relationships with people you met online. I have, too. But the online medium was just the way you met them; the actual development of the relationship required meeting in person. The online medium can be deceptive; there are people I know in person whom I like, but when I see their posts online they interest me not at all. And others I've been insulted by online, liked me well enough in person to have a beer with me.

I don't propose restricting people's choices about what and where to post. I'm simply suggesting that forums should have a focus. I wouldn't yabber on about gaming on a dating website, or about cooking on a political website, and I really shouldn't talk about politics on an rpg site. Or if I do, I should try to minimise it, and remember the main purpose of the place. And if in fact I've no actual interest in the topic of the place, I should stay out of it, and not waste people's time.

While you're praising the glories of rpg.net, it's worth remembering that were you to post anything like you just did over there, you'd be banned, probably permanently. That demonstrates what I'm saying. therpgsite has greater freedoms because of its greater focus; rpg.net has less freedom because it's less focused. So you have freedom in what you're speaking about (rpg.net), or you can have freedom in how you're saying it (therpgsite). You can be restricted in both what you say, and how you say it (SJGames), but it's unusual to be free in both. It's not a law of nature or anything, it's just the way forums tend to evolve.

I know you think you can talk about anything you like here, but I think we can be pretty sure that if Off Topic ever became a Tangency Open, RPGPundit would ditch it entirely. So the freedom of topic's there, but it's not unlimited. On the other hand, the freedom of tone is unlimited, pretty much.

Enjoy what you've got here. You get to abuse me and whoever you like. You may say that you don't consider that a good feature of the place, in which case I suggest you stop abusing us

I'm just surprised that more folks don't post here just to abuse you JimBob

Come to abuse JimBob
Stay for the game talk

Regards,
David R

We've even got a thread for that, David R. So far, people only posted to say "I'm not posting in this thread about you being a prick, because you are a prick."

Bring it on, Hack Boy. I've been insulted by people with even worst taste in rpgs than you!

I thank my ancestors my taste in rpgs is Patrician. Now you run along, play your historical games and pretend to be me :snooty:

Regards,
David R

Jim

No, it doesn't.  It really really doesn't.  Anything deep - like online relationships - totally online dating - sure, eventually you need to meet.  But friendship?  It really doesn't.  You can be very good friends with someone only from online.  I know - my wife is very good friends with some.  

Now, friends just from posting to an RPG website?  Sure - but once you get into LJ + other online territory, its very easy to become friends with someone you've never met.  

I mostly take exception to your "pathetic losers" slant in your post.  

And no, what I posted there wouldn't get me banned - It'd get me WARNED.  Big difference.  Cause I don't make a habit of making myself a nuisance over there - so, consequently, they're likely to cut me some slack on the first offense.  Plus, given how much shit-stirring you've done over there, the fact I cursed you out would likely mitigate the crime a bit.  Plus, I get warned I say "cool, sorry, won't happen again" - cause its MEANINGLESS, unlike others who get a bit of red text and get all frothing at the mouth and angry and shit.

I do enjoy it here - more than I thought I would.  The two sites are different, thus they feed different desires.  I still enjoy reading and posting there - though I seem to be slipping into more of a "lurker" a lot, as I read, go to post and say "nahhh...its not worth refuting this jackass".  The current Global Warming thread there is a perfect case point example.  Far more intelligent and science-y guys than I are refuting the hell out of a climate change denier, so theres no point in me doing so.  I'm learning a lot reading it, though, so I keep reading.