Quote from: David Johansen;1133949Defined expectations are useful and codes of conduct define expectations.  I think that's part of the problem our society is struggling with right now.  A long time ago we had defined expectations that were very rigid and classist and religiously based and we decided to jetison them but never really put anything back in their place.  So, now we have people who are shocked that in the absence of codes of conduct people didn't know how to act and did stupid and evil things.  In principle I belive that people need to govern themselves but it doesn't help to not know what's expected.  Of course, then you get into the question of who should define those expectations.  The answer is, of course, me.  I don't understand how everybody else can get the same answer and be so absolutely wrong at the same time.

When the CoC suggests that ANY complaint, no matter how insane, about someone in your company MUST be believed and the accused must be punished up to and including denial of pay and royalties, that's not "clearly defined expectations", that's East Germany.

In East Germany, the secret police come for you in the middle of the night.  The present state of affairs is 1950s McCarthyism with bigotry standing in for Communism.

Quote from: David Johansen;1133882I really love how the only bigotry that's acceptable is your own.

It's all about their personal bigotry being acceptable and more importantly all about the carefully constructed personal narratives. Anything that goes against the ALMIGHTY narrative does not exist.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1135037When the CoC suggests that ANY complaint, no matter how insane, about someone in your company MUST be believed and the accused must be punished up to and including denial of pay and royalties, that's not "clearly defined expectations", that's East Germany.

I never had plans to write for rpgs yet with this kind of insane bullshit in the CoC I never ever will that is just insane.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1135037When the CoC suggests that ANY complaint, no matter how insane, about someone in your company MUST be believed and the accused must be punished up to and including denial of pay and royalties, that's not "clearly defined expectations", that's East Germany.

Including this.

QuoteThe Project Owner is expected to listen to and trust the person reporting the problematic behavior and the person(s) affected. The Project Owner and team members will respect those reporting a violation and those reporting a violation are never to be punished or harassed for reporting

If the Project Owner violates the Code of Conduct, team members may report this to any higher management or to entities that collaborate or work with the product/project. This includes distributors, resellers, vendor and industry groups, conventions, and similar entities.

Yep, and actually they are proving the actual Joe McCarthy right, perhaps not against the specific individuals that he accused of being Communists, but his general accusation that Communists were taking over Hollywood proved to be right on the money. Where once accused Communists were being blacklisted from work in Hollywood, today its conservatives that are being blacklisted.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1133777Code of Conduct: I swear by Gygax's loaded dice that I will show up on time, and bring along snacks, dice and my wits!

Agreed:[ATTACH=CONFIG]4586[/ATTACH]

You don't need the last bit. Anyone who brings snacks, dice and their wits is going to participate usefully in the game session. People who are dicks always fail to bring at least one of those three things, and usually all three.

Encourage good behaviour then you don't have to veto bad behaviour. It's more warm and fuzzy that way. Besides which, dicks don't think they're dicks.

It never ceases to surprise me how easily butthurt people get about these sorts of things.  Why is it that those typically with the (supposed) deepest love for freedom and liberty have so little faith in the power of free markets?  If publishers want to use a CoC, and think it will help them produce better products... more power to them.  If it's purely virtue signaling and achieves nothing, then who cares?

The wonderful thing about roleplaying is that the entire industry could disappear overnight and as long as you still have some pens and paper, a few dice and a couple of like-minded friends, you can still play games.

Quote from: Tyberious Funk;1135410If publishers want to use a CoC, and think it will help them produce better products... more power to them.  If it's purely virtue signaling and achieves nothing, then who cares?

Because it can and allready has been weaponized to harm people. Thats really all it exists for. To allow sociopaths to freely destroy people with no repurcussions. And how the damn thing is worded, any publisher not slavishly following  "allways believe the accuser!" will then themselves fall under threat of being accused.

Quote from: Omega;1135417Because it can and allready has been weaponized to harm people. Thats really all it exists for. To allow sociopaths to freely destroy people with no repurcussions. And how the damn thing is worded, any publisher not slavishly following  "allways believe the accuser!" will then themselves fall under threat of being accused.

Seconded.

I mean I don't understand why anyone with a quarter of functioning brain cells cannot understand how that is a bad thing.

Two fellow writers have a bad break-up and one decides to ruin the other career with a false accusation the COC as written throws the accused under the bus even if the charge is fake. Then again when it's not them being accused or their life ruined then it's okay.

When the industry is dominated by a few large companies, rather than a lot of small ones, then the danger is they become like Google, they force one set of opinions down the throats of their customer base and instead of going to another competitor, they decide they don't like role playing games anymore and stop playing because RPGs have gotten too political and it is a brand of politics they don't like. One of the reasons I like Dungeons & Dragons is that its generic, you could play a lot of politically incorrect games with it, if you wanted, and if the DM and players are happy with that, it is fine, they might alienate a few players, but that is on them and their gaming group, not on the company that makes the game.

Dungeons and Dragons allows players a lot of freedom and leeway to run their campaign however they see fit, that is not the same with all RPGs, the best example of the other case is with Twilight 2000. Twilight 2000 has a specific world that it applies to, and one day that World didn't happen, so on another website I suggested various ways Twilight 2000 could be updated, since the Soviet Union collapsed, we had to go looking for another "bad guy" to have World War III with, and a lot of people didn't agree with me, there was a lot of controversy. I suggested an alternate history where the Soviet Union didn't collapse, but it would have been different, by the time the Soviet coup failed the Warsaw Pact was gone. So if the coup had succeeded the war would be fought in Poland, but this time Poland would be a NATO ally instead of a Warsaw Pact nation, there was a lot of controversy coming from people who liked Communism and thought they were the good guys.

I also suggested that they could rewrite the history of the 2300 AD game to reflect the realities of the revised Twilight 2000, and then the sh*t hit the fan! A lot of people on the left liked the 2300 timeline, France had its day of glory by not fighting in World War III and becoming a superpower for its cowardice, then the United States got a piece taken out of it by Mexico, and of course Texas declared its independence. What's there for a liberal not to love? I suggested a timeline where World War III didn't happen and they didn't like that at all! With Dungeons & Dragons you don't have this problem, as the game is generic and there is no official setting in which politics comes into play.

Quote from: Taggie;1133564aww diduum the widdle conservative got butt hurt that his frenzied attacks on females and children aren't accepted anymore

Ironic how this troll violates the very CoC being criticized here, but that's the left for ya.

Quote from: SHARK;1133607Why the fuck do writers, creators, and game designers need to have a "Code of Conduct?" It's just more fucking Marxism. More Language Distortion, and just yet another eample of whining, cock-sucking Communists trying to subvert part of our culture.

To be fair The Constitution is also a Code of Conduct.

Quote from: Taggie;1133798utterly serious, not going to go softly softly around the dangerous psycho sexual disease that is conservatism any more, to many rapes and murders because of it, every single say, to good a network of cover up and obfuscation around the malignant, cannibalistic cult,  now remember, you want your conservative badge, and the daily ration of kiddie porn, you have to say your heil putins, the irredeemable evil of conservatism is a clear and present danger to every child on the planet, they can't control themselves in the mindless rape frenzy of the republican.

Right back at ya.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1133802Don't post in this thread again, and don't post this sort of garbage anywhere again, or you'll be banned. I'd say the exact same thing to a conservative poster saying anything like the above to a liberal poster.

Let them speak. The only cause they're hurting is their own.

Quote from: David Johansen;1133949Defined expectations are useful and codes of conduct define expectations.  I think that's part of the problem our society is struggling with right now.  A long time ago we had defined expectations that were very rigid and classist and religiously based and we decided to jetison them but never really put anything back in their place.  So, now we have people who are shocked that in the absence of codes of conduct people didn't know how to act and did stupid and evil things.  In principle I belive that people need to govern themselves but it doesn't help to not know what's expected.  Of course, then you get into the question of who should define those expectations.  The answer is, of course, me.  I don't understand how everybody else can get the same answer and be so absolutely wrong at the same time.

Neither do I

Quote from: Tyberious Funk;1135410The wonderful thing about roleplaying is that the entire industry could disappear overnight and as long as you still have some pens and paper, a few dice and a couple of like-minded friends, you can still play games.

You are correct. No matter what stupidity occurs in the industry, we can still play games in our own home, however we would like to play.

But that's not the problem here.

The problem with the leftist takeover of the hobby is they seek to dictate WHO can publish, WHERE you can sell, and WHAT you can write. AKA, its not about the players of games, but the creators of games.

As we are a niche hobby, there isn't much money to go around.

DriveThruRPG is the dominant marketplace for PDF/POD, by a large margin compared to Lulu and allegedly even small press RPGs on Amazon don't sell as well as through DriveThru. Thus, the capitulation of DriveThru endangers the entire small press marketplace. Every author, artist and publisher then must choose capitulation or exile.

The "free market" is a nice idea, but there isn't enough ROI in this niche hobby to justify the capital necessary to overthrow DriveThru or BGG. Anybody could crank out an online marketplace, but without the marketing dollars to draw in customers, you're just creating another marginal business.

It's much akin the situation with YouTube. Those creators banned from YT are welcome on BitChute and others, but their viewership drops to a tiny fraction of YT and the ROI for the creators to keep creating drops to near zero.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1135482The "free market" is a nice idea, but there isn't enough ROI in this niche hobby to justify the capital necessary to overthrow DriveThru or BGG.

The way modern would-be game designers think, it's a good thing Gygax didn't think back when he started. We face obstacles he didn't, like the SJWs, but he faced obstacles we don't, like having to print and handmake every one of the first thousand fucking copies, pay for it all, take it to a con and hope for the best.

Never before in human history has it been so easy for people to publish their writing and get some money for it. Never.

Kyle, I fully agree with you. It's never been easier to self-publish.

However, Gygax didn't invent the "self-published game" wheel though. There was a tradition in the wargame world of poorly typed and badly photocopied pamphlets being sold at gatherings. AKA, a marketplace existed in which he could participate. When he brought D&D to that marketplace, he was taking a big risk, but he knew there was a groundswell of excitement from his players. Of course, that didn't guarantee success or even break even, and he made a bold move with the right product at the right time.  

Now we have an established marketplace for RPGs and its easy to reach your audience...BUT you might be cut off from that marketplace if the freakshow mob decides you have wrongthink and must be canceled.