Quote from: CRKrueger;1126757Based on what, that it came from a lab?  Virology labs are full of non-engineered viruses as well as the host organisms.

The patent Gamedaddy's talking about is for chicken coronaviruses.  SARS-CoV2 bears genetic resemblance to SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV bat coronaviruses with possible relation to snake coronaviruses.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. You mean specifically created, not isolated. Well, that's still up for debate...the US State Department is investigating it further. I think it's indisputable it came from a lab, though.

Quote from: Pat;1126829I have no problem reading budgets, as should be clear from the way I pointed out the many mistakes you made in reading the CDC's operating plans.

The CDC operating plans we discussed either show an increase in the overall CDC budget, or an increase in all areas of the CDC budget except for 2 non-recurrent expenses. That does not support your claim that the CDC's budget has been cut for 12 years in a row. The article I cited in my first post also contradicts that claim, as do all of the other sources I've read. That means the obligation is on you to provide a source for your claims, or at least a plausible argument of some kind. Which you haven't; you're just ranting.

Are you confusing me with other posters? Because we haven't been discussing this for "plenty" of pages, nor have we talked about anything on that long list of things you claim we've been talking about, except the CDC's budget.

Not sure where you are getting your information from. Please provide links. Health and Human Services by the way confirms the CDC budget cuts...  That is the reports directly from two government agencies now CDC and HHS, versus your made up fantasies,,,

Here is the 2019 CDC budget from Health and Human Services website. Please note; It is not available and you are referred to the CDC website instead... BECAUSE THE BUDGET HAS BEEN CUT!

Here is the 2018 CDC Budget report from Health and Human Services, showing a 1.3 Trillion dollar cut in the CDC 2018 budget including the closures of many facilities I referenced earlier as well as the elimination of the NATIONAL STOCKPILE of equipment and emergency supplies.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2018/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html

Here is 2017 a net loss of two hundred million dollars from the CDC 2016 Budget...
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2017/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html#overview

Here is a link to HHS 2016 budget review of CDC... linking directly to the CDC PDF instead where the Budget was cut 116 Million dollars from the 2015...
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2016/fy-2016-cdc-operating-plan_1.pdf

Really I can go all the way back to 2008 with budget cuts from respiratory illness and emergency response plans the CDC every single year... You need all twelve years of data, look it up yourself you lazy!!! I already know, or would not have made that claim in the first place!

One tiny little interesting highlight I did find was back in 2016, a 12 Million dollar surplus grant from CDC to combat Polio, even though the real problem that year was the Ebola outbreak in Africa. The Bill & Melinda gates foundation has been throwing tens of millions of dollars at eliminating the new polio outbreak, and that is a private foundation.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126837Not sure where you are getting your information from. Please provide links.

WTF?

You know exactly where I'm getting my information, because they're your links. You linked to the CDC operating plans, made a bunch of false claims, I looked at the operating plans you linked, and then pointed out exactly where you were reading them wrong. You still haven't addressed a single one of those errors.

For reference:
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/operating-plans/index.html

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126837Health and Human Services by the way confirms the CDC budget cuts...

Here is the 2019 CDC budget from Health and Human Services website. Please note; It is not available and you are referred to the CDC website instead... BECAUSE THE BUDGET HAS BEEN CUT!

Here is the 2018 CDC Budget report from Health and Human Services, showing a 1.3 Trillion dollar cut in the CDC 2018 budget including the closures of many facilities I referenced earlier as well as the elimination of the NATIONAL STOCKPILE of equipment and emergency supplies.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2018/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html

Here is 2017 a net loss of two hundred million dollars from the CDC 2016 Budget...
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2017/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html#overview

Here is a link to HHS 2016 budget review of CDC... linking directly to the CDC PDF instead where the Budget was cut 116 Million dollars from the 2015...
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2016/fy-2016-cdc-operating-plan_1.pdf

Really I can go all the way back to 2008 with budget cuts from respiratory illness and emergency response plans the CDC every single year... You need all twelve years of data, look it up yourself you lazy!!! I already know, or would not have made that claim in the first place!

One tiny little interesting highlight I did find was back in 2016, a 12 Million dollar surplus grant from CDC to combat Polio, even though the real problem that year was the Ebola outbreak in Africa. The Bill & Melinda gates foundation has been throwing tens of millions of dollars at eliminating the new polio outbreak, and that is a private foundation.

Compare the two "budget" pages you linked:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2017/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2018/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html

The FY 2017 page claims the CDC earned more than $4 billion from vaccines for children, in 2016 and 2017. While the FY 2018 page claims the CDC spent more than $4 billion on vaccines for children, in the same two years. The entire section has the plusses and minuses inverted. There are also wild irregularities in the URLs, structure, content, and so forth. Looks like an intern hand-crafted each page.

So not only are the numbers questionable, but Health & Human Services clearly considers their own website to be the secondary source in those matters, because if you go back to the main budget page, and tunnel down by fiscal year and then agency (CDC), the links all go back to the operating plans on the CDC's own website.

So if you want to continue the conversation, please address the false claims you made about the CDC operating plans.

And that's the second time you've said trillion with a T, when you mean billion with a B. The CDC budget is not greater than the budget for the entire federal government.

...bullshit reading errors snipped.

Quote from: Pat;1126848WTF?
 ...And that's the second time you've said trillion with a T, when you mean billion with a B. The CDC budget is not greater than the budget for the entire federal government.

Please note that all Federal Budgets being presented here on both HHS and CDC websites are expressed in millions of dollars; from the third line on the CDC budgets (dollars in thousands).

So a line item like
 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FY 2019---- FY2020------- Final
Immunization and Respiratory Diseases -BA----- $476,224---$433,105-----($43,119)

really means this:-----------------------------------$476,224,000----$433,105,000-- $(43,119,000)

See. this is what a 43 million dollar loss actually looks like on a line item federal budget, if of course, you could actually read. Your stupid is burning everyone on the interwebs now.


Pretty certain I have made my point now for everyone that matters. QED

Quote from: Pat;1126848WTF?
The FY 2017 page claims the CDC earned more than $4 billion from vaccines for children, in 2016 and 2017. While the FY 2018 page claims the CDC spent more than $4 billion on vaccines for children, in the same two years. The entire section has the plusses and minuses inverted. There are also wild irregularities in the URLs, structure, content, and so forth. Looks like an intern hand-crafted each page.

So not only are the numbers questionable, but Health & Human Services clearly considers their own website to be the secondary source in those matters, because if you go back to the main budget page, and tunnel down by fiscal year and then agency (CDC), the links all go back to the operating plans on the CDC's own website.

And that's the second time you've said trillion with a T, when you mean billion with a B. The CDC budget is not greater than the budget for the entire federal government.

How can the Health and Human Services  be the secondary site when CDC is just one department of Health and Human Services? The answer, is it's not. The CDC literally have had their budget cut, and I'm certain Health and Human Sevrices has had their budget cut as well.

And you are right, I meant CDC only had a ONE POINT THREE BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET CUT IN 2018. ....OOooohh my bad!!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4270[/ATTACH]

Is this really about gaming...

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126860...bullshit reading errors snipped.

You made a bunch of bullshit claims, and provided a few links. I went through your links, found your errors, and proved you wrong with own data. And you just ignore that, and made up a bunch of new bullshit claims, and provide a few new inks. And I proved you wrong, using your own sources, again. And now you're trying to change the topic, again.

That's your pattern.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126860Please note that all Federal Budgets being presented here on both HHS and CDC websites are expressed in millions of dollars; from the third line on the CDC budgets (dollars in thousands).

So a line item like
 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FY 2019---- FY2020------- Final
Immunization and Respiratory Diseases -BA----- $476,224---$433,105-----($43,119)

really means this:-----------------------------------$476,224,000----$433,105,000-- $(43,119,000)

See. this is what a 43 million dollar loss actually looks like on a line item federal budget, if of course, you could actually read. Your stupid is burning everyone on the interwebs now.


Pretty certain I have made my point now for everyone that matters. QED

No shit, Sherlock. Why do you think I posted this, back in post #129:

Quote from: Pat;1126785In any case, you've clearly never read a budget before. There was not an overall decrease in spending on Immunization and Respiratory Diseases between FY19 and FY20. That $43 million was subtracted from one of the line items (BA), while almost $50 million was added to the other line item (PPHF). I&RD saw an overall increase, of $6.6 million.

Whaddya know, I do know what $43 million looks like.

On the other hand, let's look at what you said.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126776Here is last years Budget. 2019. They cut immunizations by 43 Million dollars, and added just six million dollars for respiratory diseases. This was offset by a decrease of $704 Million Dollars for buildings and facilities, In fact, what was actually spent by the CDC was $914,550,000 less than what was actually approved in the budget at the beginning of the 2019 fiscal year. So a net cut of almost ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!!! YOU ARE SO FULL OF BULLSHIT EVERYONE CAN SMELL IT EVEN OVER THE INTERNET!!!

[snip unreadable attachment]

So you can verify this for yourselves, the actual link to the CDC 2019 Operating Budget
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-cdc-operating-plan.pdf

I'll direct to to the bottom line, which is the total budget for the CDC, including all non-recurrent expenses. Look in the FY 2019 box:
$7,339,025

If that's in millions, then we have to add 6 zeros:
$7,339,025,000,000, or $7.3 trillion

Wow. That's almost twice the entire federal budget. A a third of the entire GNP of the US. Roughly 1/10th the GNP of the entire world....

Oh, wait. The top of the chart says "(Dollars in Thousands)". Sorry, GameDaddy. The CDC's budget in FY 2019 is not $7.3 trillion. It's $7.3 billion.

So no GameDaddy, there wasn't (deep breath) "a net cut of almost ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!!!"

But you didn't have the grace to accept it, or even just drop it, when I pointed out your error....

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126837Here is the 2018 CDC Budget report from Health and Human Services, showing a 1.3 Trillion dollar cut in the CDC 2018 budget including the closures of many facilities I referenced earlier as well as the elimination of the NATIONAL STOCKPILE of equipment and emergency supplies.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2018/budget-in-brief/cdc/index.html

You're referring to the total discretionary budget authority line, final column, which shows FY 2018 - FY 2017. Here's the precise number:
-1,315

Checking the top of the chart, we find a little note: "(Dollars in millions)". So we add 6 zeros:
-1,315,000,000

That's not "1.3 Trillion dollar"s, GameDaddy. It's slightly under $-1.3 billion dollars.

And then you tried to blame your mistakes on me.

And since we've seen one table where the numbers are expressed in thousands of dollars, and another that's expressed in millions of dollars, we've also disproved your other claim, that "all Federal Budgets being presented here on both HHS and CDC websites are expressed in millions of dollars".

You remind me of C++/Matthew.

Quote from: trechriron;1126867Is this really about gaming...

Quote from: GameDaddy;1126863And you are right, I meant CDC only had a ONE POINT THREE BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET CUT IN 2018. ....OOooohh my bad!!!

Since you deleted your original post, I deleted my reply and accept your gracious concession.

Quote from: trechriron;1126867Is this really about gaming...

Of course it is, it shows you that some people need help when calculating their character abilities.

Quote from: trechriron;1126867Is this really about gaming...

Of course, when it isn't getting sidetracked by the causes of the Coronavirus.. The latest convention report from the last convention that I attended, just a week before the national lockdown went into effect, CincyCon 2020 held the first weekend of March.


CincyCon 2020

Also my review of the new Secrets of Blackmoor Kickstarter Dvd

Secrets of Blackmoor Volume 1 - The True History of Dungeons and Dragons

Quote from: trechriron;1126867Is this really about gaming...

I thought this was a thread where people shared their game-related, made-up conspiracy theories that were inspired by the current COVID-19 pandemic. Now I'm starting to wonder whether I may have misunderstood some of those posts....

Quote from: Bren;1126931I thought this was a thread where people shared their game-related, made-up conspiracy theories that were inspired by the current COVID-19 pandemic. Now I'm starting to wonder whether I may have misunderstood some of those posts....

There's the Dark Web, and then there's the Deep State Web. Which is hidden, in the open. The wild inconsistencies, errors, and strangeness of various government websites like H&HS aren't the result of ineptness or inefficiency. They're a code, a message, to those who can read them. Deciphering the messages is part cryptography, and part numerology.

Quote from: trechriron;1126867Is this really about gaming...

Good Damn Point.

What the Eff does arguing about the CDC have to do with RPgs or Tabeletop gaming?

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;1126968Good Damn Point.

What the Eff does arguing about the CDC have to do with RPgs or Tabeletop gaming?

- Ed C.

I don't know. This seems to me to be a perfect example as to how rumours and suspicions work in game. Haven't you looked ever looked at a module and gone 'Really? They're using that as a premise as to why they're doing whatever they do? Would anyone believe that? ' Well you've just been provided an example how it can occur!

Quote from: Bren;1126931I thought this was a thread where people shared their game-related, made-up conspiracy theories that were inspired by the current COVID-19 pandemic. Now I'm starting to wonder whether I may have misunderstood some of those posts....

Matt Collville made an interesting point in one of his postings about the multiple roles that GMs take.  Sometimes an NPC can say something that they believe but is wrong but (mostly starting) players will accept it as it comes from the GMs mouth and the GM normally states truths about the world.  Players have to learn when the GM is playing an unreliable narrator. I find sometimes you just have to slightly amplify to flaws in the NPCs position so you can see that realisation dawn on the players' faces.  

What we can witness on this board is members authoritatively stating hypotheses, which they might well believe, but that doesn't mean that they are true. I also think it is natural to tend to trust the opinion of someone that you acknowledge as an expert in one field, i.e. here RPGs, even when they are talking about something on which they know nothing - but perhaps dress up with faux authority with references and technical jargon.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is now quite well known. Another way to look at that is that the more you know about something the better you are at understanding the complexity or difficulty of a problem. The higher your Climb skill, the better you are at knowing the difficulty level of a climbing skill challenge.  Do you know any games that incorporate this idea?