Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1125966Are we still talking about the game?

No, and I don't care to pursue Doc Sammys stuff any further. I hope he gets better if he's genuine and I hope he gets fragged if he's not. Making personas to cope is a bad strategy and I have never seen it work.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1125966I find it offensive that alphabet people aren't allowed to be villains. That denies them agency and by extension their personhood.

SJWs are collectivists and generally disdain personhood and individualism. SJWs also don't care about offending people. They just re-structured language so that the word for 'Blasphemy' and the word for 'Offense' is the same.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1125981...
SJWs are collectivists and generally disdain personhood and individualism. SJWs also don't care about offending people. They just re-structured language so that the word for 'Blasphemy' and the word for 'Offense' is the same.

This is the real truth.

The SJW's, and leftists in general, are not now, nor have they ever been, advocates for "free speech".

They just want to be the ones writing/in control of the Blasphemy laws.

Quote from: Jaeger;1126012This is the real truth.

The SJW's, and leftists in general, are not now, nor have they ever been, advocates for "free speech".

They just want to be the ones writing/in control of the Blasphemy laws.

In my opinion, there are always blasphemy laws (this isn't necessarily bad in it by itself) and there is always a political class that is in bad taste to target for power reasons. There are always at least some bad people in positions of power.

The SJW principle is deluding themselves that they bypass universal injustices with language control and heavy doses of cognitive dissonance.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1126029In my opinion, there are always blasphemy laws (this isn't necessarily bad in it by itself)

Blasphemy laws are inherently bad no matter who they're targeted towards, be they critics of Christianity, Islam, Atheism, Social Justice, people who hate Marvel, or any other ideology.

Blasphemy laws are just used to curb any idea or opinion seen as unpopular or problematic by the ruling powers that be.


But unfortunately, they do exist and it's a sad part of reality

Like you said, there will always be some kind of ruling class and there will always be at least a few scumbags in that ruling group.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1126034Blasphemy laws are inherently bad no matter who they're targeted towards.

The nature of sacred elements is inherent to all societies. Those elements tie that society together and permit a level of basic function that becomes harder and harder to maintain as a default when a society surpasses 150 cavemen or so. Blasphemy laws are illogical but so are human beings and so is existence in general.

It's like hating farts. They smell bad and it would sound like getting rid of them would be a good idea. But your stomach is just going to explode instead. I don't hate humans because they fart. And I don't see farting as something I lament humans do.

I feel like much of today's problems (or even the problems of the last 100 years or so) is how we try to deny a certain degree of human nature. Denying it just leaves us more vulnerable to it. Societies theoretically all about getting rid of blasphemy laws and having the most future-thinking attitudes end up murdering people by the millions and having blasphemy laws that make the Spanish inquisition sound like a pillow fight.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1126035The nature of sacred elements is inherent to all societies. Those elements tie that society together and permit a level of basic function that becomes harder and harder to maintain as a default when a society surpasses 150 cavemen or so. Blasphemy laws are illogical but so are human beings and so is existence in general.

It's like hating farts. They smell bad and it would sound like getting rid of them would be a good idea. But your stomach is just going to explode instead. I don't hate humans because they fart. And I don't see farting as something I lament humans do.

I feel like much of today's problems (or even the problems of the last 100 years or so) is how we try to deny a certain degree of human nature. Denying it just leaves us more vulnerable to it. Societies theoretically all about getting rid of blasphemy laws and having the most future-thinking attitudes end up murdering people by the millions and having blasphemy laws that make the Spanish inquisition sound like a pillow fight.

True.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be sacred cows in every society and it's a part of reality that is unavoidable and we have to accept will always be around.

Like, I don't think they are a good thing but I accept them as inevitable in some form or another. I should've been a bit more clear on that

I don't like the idea of blasphemy laws, but they do exist in one form or another and while I personally hate these things, the world doesn't give a fuck about what I love or hate.

Sometimes we just have to roll with the punches. The world is random at times, and all you can do is try to do your best to survive within it.

Back to WOD. All the games have serious problems but I have good times with a good GM. We play Promethean Chronicles. Most of the wankey stuff has been minimized for fun road trip adventure stuff. While its power set can be annoying if played right its a fun and unique experience. But the books editing is so goddam bad.

Overall I can't decide which edition I prefer. NWOD has less world wank, but is just blander overall. But tighter mechanics in places meant for more crossover. COD is NWOD with some bads and some goods. Its XP gains faster but also feels annoying at times. OWOD has more charm but its mechanics are the most directly jank and its worldwank is super high.

If I didn't have a good gaming group that where drawn to this IP by the existence of the videogame I would have never had interest in this game and I will likely never run it myself.

As for 5e....That feels like developmental incest. 20th Anniversary versions where kinda fantastic capstones. So it makes sense that 5e has only MAXWANK to focus on.

I think we all agree that World of Darkness games suck ass when it comes to editing.  I recently comb over Mage the Awakening (CoD version) and my Lord that game needs a editor.  The info is scattered everywhere and shit is a mess.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1126046I think we all agree that World of Darkness games suck ass when it comes to editing.  I recently comb over Mage the Awakening (CoD version) and my Lord that game needs a editor.  The info is scattered everywhere and shit is a mess.

I can't say anything bad about syntactic magic systems in theory because in theory they're pretty neat. Where MtA screws up is the practices. Ars Magica was pretty well defined in its 5 techniques. MtA has 13, plus another 5 for archmasters. That's not inherently bad, but the practices aren't well defined and their names aren't indicative like the AM techniques.

A lot of those practices are repeats of lesser practices which is redundant.  Not only that, but basic information is scattered too.  Took me a while to figure out what yantras are and my friend who has less patience than me was slowly losing his mind in finding what praxis is.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1126189A lot of those practices are repeats of lesser practices which is redundant.  

Not repeats, exactly. What WW was trying to do was spread out the capabilities of the 5 techniques across the 13 practices, because they're using the "realm" form of syntactic magic instead of the "noun-verb" form used by Ars Magica. See this post for a brief overview of the game design POV for syntactic magic (with GURPS as the example): http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2016/02/mechanics-syntactic-magic.html

What WW should have done was present the 5 techniques as the baseline first and then break them down into the 13 practices. Or even explain how syntactic magic systems are supposed to work so that GMs can internalize and apply that logic.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1126189Not only that, but basic information is scattered too.  Took me a while to figure out what yantras are and my friend who has less patience than me was slowly losing his mind in finding what praxis is.

I haven't tried reading the 2nd editions in years so I have no clue what a yantra or a praxis is.

EDIT: Ok, I googled it. If I understand correctly, then yantra is ritual tools or M20's paradigm and praxis is a rote or well-practiced effect that is easier to cast.

How difficult is it to just say that they're mechanics that make casting easier? Just put the crunch first, and save the fluff for its own chapter. Jeeze!

Anyway, I like the basic concept of paradigm/yantras/magical traditions/whatever as a way to customize your characters. The same basic logic is why I praise the settings of Lost and Vigil.

What I don't like is global metaplots, monolithic factions, and one true myths.

Werewolves are a particularly hardhit example, since WW only offers the choice of eco-terrorists or magical vice cops.

You can't play WitchCraft's ferals or the Knights of St. Christopher from Netflix's The Order.