My issue with Kno-balls has ZERO to do with Dungeon World. It might be the best or worst RPG ever, and his RPGing advice could be the most amazing or most banal. If I play DW (and I hope to try it) and if I love the gameplay, I'd be more than happy to promote the game. But NONE of that matters. What matters is Kno-balls made himself out to be a Virtue Champion and developed a following around his woke brand...but lo and behold, he can't even handle the baseline of being a decent human being.

You don't ever rape PCs. Most especially the PC of a female player.

To quote the Simpsons, "RAPE NOW BAD!"

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1125582Just to summarize what happened:
* He has a group of players. Koebel's style is to try and delve into player emotions and psychological states. If you have some phobia or whatever he wants to explore your feelings. So I'm not surprised this happened eventually.
* One player was sexually assaulted once, and through her character wanted to "learn how to say no to her friends and others" more.
* She got put in a situation where her character got raped by an NPC friend.

THIS is exactly why you don't mix psychological therapy with tabletop games. Kno-balls was playing amateur shrink. That's all sorts of dangerous for everyone involved and bound to result in a mess, or worse.

Hopefully the woman involved seeks out licensed professional counseling.

Here is her response to the whole thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y21hx6FEPE

Explains what happened and why she quit.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125590Hopefully the woman involved seeks out licensed professional counseling.

Doing that right away is a great way to make things worse. You do that if you can't get over a trauma. Never as a first response.

Do people get over trauma without counseling.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1125593Here is her response to the whole thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y21hx6FEPE

Explains what happened and why she quit.

Was just about to post that. I think it's important to understand what happened - AFAICT it looks like Koebel thought he could get away with it because it was male PC (very typical US media attitude that male on male rape is funny), because it was two robots, and because he'd set it up to be less visceral more mental.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1125596Do people get over trauma without counseling.

Yes, mostly - if it's a single traumatic event (like this (arguably), or the ship sinking where half my aunt's children drowned). Counselling too early can stop re-integration. The advice I've seen is to seek counselling if after 6 months or so you're still having nightmares etc. I expect the advice varies a bit over time and place but the important point is that counselling helps re-integration if your mind has trouble processing what happened, but done too early it can disrupt the natural healing process.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1125585You have to be a special kind of stupid to think Rape is a funny/fun thing to Roleplay through.

In-fact, why would you do a blow-by-blow RP of any sexual scene in an RPG session? Like that is not what anyone is there for.

Well, it was what Koebel was there for, the rest of the group just didn't know that until it was too late.

Quote from: Shasarak;1125550I did try to watch the offending Adam Koebel video but honestly I find it very hard to engage with actual play videos even supposedly famous ones like Crucial Roll.

You only have to watch the part where it happens to experience the cringe and creepiness.

Quote from: jeff37923;1125599Well, it was what Koebel was there for, the rest of the group just didn't know that until it was too late.

It certainly seems like it. Guy looks genuinely creepy while doing it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1125596Do people get over trauma without counseling.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes reactions to it comes back later and they realize they haven't overcome it, but this can happen with counseling too. The most understood thing about this area is that it is not fully understood.

Meh...the usual massive overreaction of all the special snowflake morons that now are part of our hobby. Was it a good idea what Adam did? No, not if he admits that they didn't have a real "session zero" talk. But honestly, watch that scene...if this is your definition of rape, you are insulting all human beings who ever really got raped. This is blown waaaay out of proportion.

What i find more damning is how full on black&white-and-nothing-else people are...no one is ever allowed to make a mistake...these SJW just burn you down for good. No chance of redemption EVER. And they really think they are good people?! With that attitude? Fucking hypocrites, all of them.
The amount of folks who really think that they are on moral highground is appalling.

And just for the protocol - I don't even like Adam Koebel. His views on rpg are not mine and he thinks way too highly of himself (and always laughing about his own jokes etc.) ... someone put it quite aptly upthread: a "rolemodel" narcicist.

The point being missed is that unless the player is comfortable with what the DM is going to use on the player during a campaign. From what I can see it was never mentioned any of that to the player or the other players. I am not an SJW nor politically correct by any means throwing a sexual predator and having a sexual assault scene happen during the game without my permission is going to piss me off. It is a big breach of trust and I would probably drop out.

Stop with "another case of political correctness" garbage. I saw both videos and any DM with one functioning brain cell could see it was a bad idea. Hell any non-DM could see it. This kind of crap gives gaming a bad name. I am not a fan of SJWs anyone who is a decent human being could see it was a bad idea. Same bullshit with "everyone makes mistakes". That is one hell of an avoidable mistake. Even before the rise of political correctness the subject of sexual assault was and is never OK at the game table. Not without consulting the group and/or DM and even them if the majority is good with the topic. Even if permission is granted one still has to be very careful. Then again the same apologists for Koebel behavior would be screaming the longest and loudest if it was done to them. It's okay right the DM simply made a mistake am I right.

It might be that it is avoidable, but that's always easy to say in hindsight. Adam really did not read the room right, agreed. But remote gaming makes that harder. As said, not a fan of Adam, but i think most of the ongoing lynchmob members are way too hard on him. That "scorched earth" philosophy is really ridiculous. Because if that was the standard (aka you make one mistake and you're out for life) nobody would ever be allowed to play and/or GM again. So yeah "S/he who is without fault, throws the first stone" ... nobody would be allowed to throw anything. And that's what is so hilarious to see here...everyone thinking that they are without fault...laughable.

And the statement of the "assaulted" player on her youtube? Wow! I mean ok, you were disturbed by it...ok, I believe you. We get it. You're a delicate flower. But if you "are not sure if he even is still my friend" over something like that? Yeah, YOU are as much of a problem. Or to put it another way...nice way of defining friendship, if all it takes to break it with you is something like that. I'd rather have no friend then a "friend" like that.

If you start questioning your friendships after something like that, maybe you're not ready to be a person on twitch/twitter/youtube. You should take some time for selfcare and/or therapy sessions. Or, you know, look into REAL friendships...friendships that also can weather a bit of an argument and some hard times.

The social-media generation really makes me weep for the future of humankind.

It actually quite is very easily avoidable imo, 99.9% most tables and players do not want anything remotely resembling any form of sexual assault. At least not without very ample warning. Even if agreed most do not want that kind of thing being done on a live session in front of strangers. So please stop making excuses and very pathetically lame ones at that.

Sexual assaulting a player or a topic at most gaming tables is not and never was acceptable in gaming. Now if the apologists want to claim it is was get your head checked. It was not a simple mistake like Adam killing off the player character unfairly and the player crying foul and asking for his head. That is a simple mistake and I would be defending him too. This is one hell of a very absolutely easily avoidable mistake. It's not even a matter of not being able to read a room. It's either lacking common sense or not giving an equally absolute fuck as a DM and person about the well being of the players. He taught if he him himself behind being an sJW all would be forgiven. Given the climate in rpgs doing a rape assault scenario on a female player and one deserves to be banned for life for being an utter douche of a human being.

Again get your head checked if being a victim of a sexual assault during an rpg session  is being a "delicate flower". That is showing your ignorance and mot even knowing what being a "delicate flower" means imo. I do something stupid in game, my character dies and I rage quit and blame the DM for being unfair and go online and say he should be blacklisted yes I'm a delicate flower. Any DM or player thinking it is cool to use a sexual assault scenario on one of my characters and tries to say "suck it up buttercup" and/or apology is dead to me. I don't care if we knew each other since kindergarten I don't want to be friends let alone anyone who takes such a cavalier and sociopathoc view of sexual assault.

When the first comment someone tells me is "sexual assault of a player it's nothing your a bunch of PC pansies" shows me that is not is someone I want to game with let alone in my life socially. While also not being a well adjusted person either mentally or socially.

Some people think walking up to strange women and sniffing their hair and putting your hands on them is fine.  I guess some people think bringing up ANYTHING that could be construed as sexual assault, and watching the scene on the quartering, his tone was real rapey.  Would i call it rape?  No.  But, no way in hell does what he did fall into the boundaries of expected table top play.  His player reactions should have been a massive que.  I dont care to cancel him, but I to ROFLMAO that he has been oh so very woke and now has to survive in the pit trap he built, with the monsters he fed.

Quote from: Anglachel;1125629It might be that it is avoidable, but that's always easy to say in hindsight. Adam really did not read the room right, agreed. But remote gaming makes that harder. As said, not a fan of Adam, but i think most of the ongoing lynchmob members are way too hard on him. That "scorched earth" philosophy is really ridiculous. Because if that was the standard (aka you make one mistake and you're out for life) nobody would ever be allowed to play and/or GM again. So yeah "S/he who is without fault, throws the first stone" ... nobody would be allowed to throw anything. And that's what is so hilarious to see here...everyone thinking that they are without fault...laughable.

And the statement of the "assaulted" player on her youtube? Wow! I mean ok, you were disturbed by it...ok, I believe you. We get it. You're a delicate flower. But if you "are not sure if he even is still my friend" over something like that? Yeah, YOU are as much of a problem. Or to put it another way...nice way of defining friendship, if all it takes to break it with you is something like that. I'd rather have no friend then a "friend" like that.

If you start questioning your friendships after something like that, maybe you're not ready to be a person on twitch/twitter/youtube. You should take some time for selfcare and/or therapy sessions. Or, you know, look into REAL friendships...friendships that also can weather a bit of an argument and some hard times.

The social-media generation really makes me weep for the future of humankind.

  He was waaay creepy.  I feel people should be able to make a mistake, BUT this woke, cancel culture male feminist has plenty of sins, his mistake is this one was against his own tribe.  And they are not too big on christian philosophy of casting the first stone last I heard.  Meaning he burned his bridge with my side of the fence with many transgressions, and it only takes one for the side he chose to thrive on.  Whoops.  I guess he can #learntocode