Quote from: sureshot;1119264The same thing they did with their 40K rpgs with multiple core books which were mostly reprints with a few new rules was also not going to get the average gamer to want to spend money buying multiple core books.

I stopped buying their Star Wars RPG when they copied text from their Edge of the Empire book into their Age of Rebellion RPG without even applying the Errata they had already released.

BTW, they also just cancelled the Star Wars Destiny collectible dice game.

Personally, I think that this was primarily caused by the low sales of their X-Wing 2.0 game. Without the extra cash from X-Wing floating the company, all their low performing lines had to go.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1119307They made a lot of stupid actions that lead to this.  Yeah it sucks for people on the ground floor who can't call the shots, but for those on top I feel like they deserve it.  They still could making dark heresy games, but instead pissed off Games Workshop if the rumors are true

It isnt. It is more the other way around.
GW had FFG under some heavy restrictions throughout FFGs use of the IP. But the actual reason FFG dropped GW is that Games Workshop increased the licensing fee to a level FFG would not, or could not meet. Which is a common reason IP based games end abruptly.

I don't know how many board gamers are here, but I have noticed pretty bad performances to some of their big lines.
Runebound 2 was a classic adventure game that lived active life for next 10 years. It had dozens of small and couple of larger expansions. Runebound 3 however introduced a funny flip-a-coin mechanism and after 2 years they killed it off. It was suppose to be THE adventure game of FFG that ended up in big failure. Runewars miniature war game was also big franchise that every store was wanting to get rid off. Now after two years I see another adventure board game having a miserable failure -- Fallout. They have had success stories as well, CoC LCG, Imperial Assault, etc., but lot of big failures.

Another thing that puts FFG in bad situation is the market situation. So many games are getting produced these days. Before big companies like FFG were the ones able to pull off big product lines that you can enjoy for a decade. Descent, Runebound, Star Wars, LCGs, etc.  Now there is so many other games constantly getting attention that the consumer base is scattered.

One thing I would blame is the Kickstarter. In gaming business it's a massive marketing tool that is used by medium sized companies and amateurs alike. Not FFG, because they are used to be a brand on another level. So even though the tabletop gaming hobby in general is thriving (perhaps even growing), I'd simplify it to a zero sum game. All the gaming budget of all the gamers is a constant. And in a market where there is one block buster Kickstarter campain every month. Projects that take 3+mil from that common budget. Where minimum pledge is close to 100 and all-in is close to 300 - 400. People are just over-spent and overwhelmed of these Kickstarter projects. And there are so few actual success stories from gamers perspective, where a game has a life after several years of it's release.

So we have situation where pre-order campaigns are getting lot of money, but delivering very little quality. And then there is FFG that is producing quality + support, but is struggling with because Kickstarter marketing is more shiny/superior than what FFG does nowadays. So, FFG is in this situation because they have made mistakes. They should design games better and market them better. But it's sad when FFG simply dies out because of this.

Quote from: Omega;1119318It isnt. It is more the other way around.
GW had FFG under some heavy restrictions throughout FFGs use of the IP. But the actual reason FFG dropped GW is that Games Workshop increased the licensing fee to a level FFG would not, or could not meet. Which is a common reason IP based games end abruptly.

Do you have any evidence to backup either your or Snowman's claims?

Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1119327Do you have any evidence to backup either your or Snowman's claims?

Talked with staff on it and I believe they noted it over on either BGG or their own site. But they did mention the license fee was the factor. There had been problems before with the restrictions that GW placed on FFG products so a license hike may have been the final straw and/or the hike was just prohibitive.

Quote from: jux;1119326So we have situation where pre-order campaigns are getting lot of money, but delivering very little quality. And then there is FFG that is producing quality + support, but is struggling with because Kickstarter marketing is more shiny/superior than what FFG does nowadays. So, FFG is in this situation because they have made mistakes. They should design games better and market them better. But it's sad when FFG simply dies out because of this.

I am worried about this trend too. It appears that many companies are going the "get all of our sales done once" route of kickstarter and then just ignoring the game after it comes out. I mean, they made their numbers, so why keep going?

Quote from: joewolz;1119336I am worried about this trend too. It appears that many companies are going the "get all of our sales done once" route of kickstarter and then just ignoring the game after it comes out. I mean, they made their numbers, so why keep going?

Add to that the number of companies that are putting out increasingly piss poor product (Shadowrun 6, heck anything from Catalyst) or just collecting money and then putting stuff out years later claiming they're a small shop and don't have time to work on it full time (Kenzer Co for example).

Quote from: joewolz;1119336I am worried about this trend too. It appears that many companies are going the "get all of our sales done once" route of kickstarter and then just ignoring the game after it comes out. I mean, they made their numbers, so why keep going?

Torg: Eternity by Ulisses Spiel NA has taken the route of a series of kickstarters, each for 4 theme-linked products about one of their cosms. The core and two cosm sets are in print, another should be out in pdf soon, and a fourth is in playtest with backers right now, so this seems to be working for them.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1119348Torg: Eternity by Ulisses Spiel NA has taken the route of a series of kickstarters, each for 4 theme-linked products about one of their cosms. The core and two cosm sets are in print, another should be out in pdf soon, and a fourth is in playtest with backers right now, so this seems to be working for them.

At the same time the Dark Eye got it's releases (pretty much all done via kickstarter) delayed several times due to lack of funds for translators (all the books exist in German they just need to cover translation and printing costs for these) and the Fading Suns KS has been delayed time and time again for the last 2 years. They also botched the release of Wrath & Glory (which was also a Kickstarter).

So I wouldn't say it's the best model for them overall.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1119351At the same time the Dark Eye got it's releases (pretty much all done via kickstarter) delayed several times due to lack of funds for translators (all the books exist in German they just need to cover translation and printing costs for these) and the Fading Suns KS has been delayed time and time again for the last 2 years. They also botched the release of Wrath & Glory (which was also a Kickstarter).

So I wouldn't say it's the best model for them overall.

That's interesting. Goes to show which of their lines I'm interested in. I own two Dark Eye books and found the mechanics to be a bit arcane for my group's learning curve even if I did love the simulationist feel of the skillset. Wrath & Glory was a turd and I say this loving the WH40K universe; I got the PDF and then swore off the product in disgust. I hoped that C7 getting W&G might see a reboot, but last I heard, it's just going to be more of the same turd under a different publisher.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1119348Torg: Eternity by Ulisses Spiel NA has taken the route of a series of kickstarters, each for 4 theme-linked products about one of their cosms. The core and two cosm sets are in print, another should be out in pdf soon, and a fourth is in playtest with backers right now, so this seems to be working for them.

You can also take a look at Monte Cook Games. They keep pumping out massively large kickstarters to support Cypher/Numenera. Peginc(Savage Worlds) has also been leveraging the platform fairly well. Though for that them I guess you mostly see core books for Savage Worlds and it probably wouldn't work as well for supplement for one of those books(a Deadlands/Rippers side book).

The Red Dragon Inn games do well as well.

Quote from: Dracones;1119359Peginc(Savage Worlds) has also been leveraging the platform fairly well. Though for that them I guess you mostly see core books for Savage Worlds and it probably wouldn't work as well for supplement for one of those books(a Deadlands/Rippers side book).

I'm pretty sure PEGINC is going to do a full Deadlands relaunch, not sure about Rippers. PRe-SWADE, they have done full KS's for mostly supplementary stuff within their line launches as stretch-goals. But they're doing KS's for Savage Rifts ongoing... which is all supplementary material. They're doing it right from my angle as a consumer... and I've rewarded them well.

Quote from: tenbones;1119367I'm pretty sure PEGINC is going to do a full Deadlands relaunch, not sure about Rippers. PRe-SWADE, they have done full KS's for mostly supplementary stuff within their line launches as stretch-goals. But they're doing KS's for Savage Rifts ongoing... which is all supplementary material. They're doing it right from my angle as a consumer... and I've rewarded them well.

The "new" version of Savage Rifts is one of the only Kickstarters that I've backed hard enough for physical copies; for most I just stick with PDFs, but the first release of Savage Rifts was good enough to convince me (and since I'd "only" gone for PDFs that time, I didn't feel like I was paying twice for the same thing).

Quote from: HappyDaze;1119370The "new" version of Savage Rifts is one of the only Kickstarters that I've backed hard enough for physical copies; for most I just stick with PDFs, but the first release of Savage Rifts was good enough to convince me (and since I'd "only" gone for PDFs that time, I didn't feel like I was paying twice for the same thing).

I hear you. I've been extremely satisfied with all their product over the last couple of years. So I try to give my full support to the stuff I'm willing to consume. Hardbacks for me. Though I'll prolly pass on future box-sets... those suckers are MASSIVE and I don't really need more chotchkies (though the poker chips are LEGIT!!!)