Well thanks to Snowman0147 I checked out godbound and found it pretty radical.

I have used Sine stuff before with Stars Without Number. The funny thing is that I didn't even initially look at godbound because I thought it would be the kind of wankery that exalted ended up exemplifying.
Godbounds art is gritty and grim but rules and writing suggest deep optimism. Exalteds art is bright and colorful but its rules and writing suggest a world mired in never ending self pity.
Also how the frack is Godbounds Artwork more consistent in quality?

But some concerns:

I actually like 3d6 systems more then 1d20 systems that feel swingy to me (IE a reason I liked stars without number). I very much liked the subsystems but the core resolution mechanics gave me pause: I feel like there isn't enough options to customize character in Godbound to make characters feel mechanically distinct. Im not a uber optimizer, but one massive turn off I felt when playing D&D 5e was the distinct feeling that my character didn't in any way feel distinguished in my actions from another.

If the mechanics are supposed to be bolstered by GM fiat Id like more guidelines for proper GM fiat. If the difference between STR 18 and 8 is a 15% difference, then Id like some guidelines to make that raw number feel meeningful if I ever got the opportunity to run it as a GM.

Does it sound like a reasonable idea to mix Stars Without Number and Godbound together someway?

rgalex mentioned it before me so give him some credit.

EDIT: It also helps that there is the deluxe version that has more options such as martial arts, mechs, the ability to create your own paradise, being arch gods, and oh...  different types of Godbound.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114477rgalex mentioned it before me so give him some credit.

EDIT: It also helps that there is the deluxe version that has more options such as martial arts, mechs, the ability to create your own paradise, being arch gods, and oh...  different types of Godbound.

Purchased it already. I haven't checked it all out though.

Also thanks rgalex. I did find that the new Godbound types include not-exalted.

However, the core resolution mechanic continues to bug me and I will likely to fidget with it.

Download Sine Nomine's Exemplars & Eidolons.

It's free and great fun. It doesn't solve all your problems, but its a "lighter" system than Godbound so you can bang on it easier, or just strip it for parts.

D20 is supposed to be swingy. It's in its nature.

But translating the core mechanic to 3D6 or 2D10 isn't a big issue.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1114845It's free and great fun. It doesn't solve all your problems, but its a "lighter" system than Godbound so you can bang on it easier, or just strip it for parts.

My main concern was a lack of customization depth. Not sure how it being lighter makes it a solution.

There is actually a lot of customization depth.  You are encourage to make up your own powers.  There is a guide for that in the core book.

How much customization depth are you looking for?

AKA, name a game which gives you that depth so we understand your parameters. Everybody has a different definition so knowing your goal posts in advance would help.

I've made a dozen PCs with E&E and they were all significantly different and unique.

I liked the Words. I just wanted a more skill based system. More variance in the numbers. So each character hit bonus didn't range by 10%.
It just bugged me that being a God of War Barely felt any different then a God of Music in practice.

Also Id like an Advantage/Disadvantage system. I feel like being disadvantaged is just as important as feeling advantaged sometimes.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855I liked the Words. I just wanted a more skill based system. More variance in the numbers. So each character hit bonus didn't range by 10%.

Your dealing with beings who automatically pass every normal challenge so as long as the word fits to what your doing.  Going with the Sword as a example.  I would not spar with Godbound with Swords as he is going to win automatically.  Likewise lifting heavy weights that mortals can actually lift is auto success with a godbound with the word Might.  You only need to roll when you are pushed to your limits like say a sparing match between two Godbound with Swords, or doing things outside of your words such as the Might word godbound writing poetry.  In short skill rolls are going to be far less important in this system and your gifts are going to be the bigger factor.  Thus why the skill system is weak.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855It just bugged me that being a God of War Barely felt any different then a God of Music in practice.

Had you played the game, or just read the rules on paper?  I am asking because I notice that yes the mechanics look all the samey when you read it.  Well let me tell you once your playing it feels vastly different.  Using Smite gift as a example.  Under Bow it is literally a single graceful arrow shot that pierces the vital spot of the target that causes immense pain and suffering.  With Beast for a brief time your hand transform into slashing claw of killing fury.  Passion you fill the target's heart with so much sorrow that they go into a deep depression and start thinking about suicide.

Hell I do this again using the same words.  Bow you produce arrows of pure divine magic and unleash them all on a single target like how one unloads a fully automatic machine gun into a poor soul.  Beast you bite onto your target and unleash a deadly snake venom that would instantly kill plenty of mortal men.  Passion you freak out your target with your unnatural wailing that you cause him to have a heart attack.

Do these sound like different mechanics to you?  If so your wrong.  This is still just a instant Xd10 damage attack where your level is X.  I just role play these gifts to make them different.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855Also Id like an Advantage/Disadvantage system. I feel like being disadvantaged is just as important as feeling advantaged sometimes.

You can house rule that facts are similar to FATE aspects.  That means the players will have to rename them and give room for a weakness.  Like say a godbound has a fact called, "Member of the White Ivory League".  You can say he gains advantage when using the faction for its benefit, but as soon as it runs counter to the faction's benefit it becomes a disadvantage roll.

Like say the White Ivory League is a mercenary group that works for the common good in the coastal region so pirates are their main enemy.  You being a member stop some pirates from raiding a coastal town which was a breeze with your godly powers.  One of the pirates you caught is this beautiful woman that for some reason you fell in love with.  Now your having a argument in trying to spare the woman's life with your leader because he thinks your having moment of lust.  Given that you just meet the woman and don't know her at all your elderly leader is most likely in the right and his arguments are far more logical than your emotional ones as far as your fellow mercenaries are concern.  Thus grounds for disadvantage.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114883Your dealing with beings who automatically pass every normal challenge so as long as the word fits to what your doing.
 You only need to roll when you are pushed to your limits like say a sparing match between two Godbound with Swords, or doing things outside of your words such as the Might word godbound writing poetry.

I'm not super interested in that, nor do I think the system is as good at it as it should be:

For instance, the main Journey Power caught me off-guard for this reason:

QuoteHeroes with the Word of Journeying always know exactly where they are, never lose their way to a known destination, and may treat travel as if it were as restful and nourishing to them as sound sleep and a good meal.

I assumed that Godbound didn't need sleep, and didn't need food, and wouldn't lose their sense of direction. But apparently you need a power for it. And if you don't have it then traveling and not eating incurs penalties....That don't exist and are not listed anywhere, and would otherwise need to orient themselves....with rules that don't exist.

Or is it a penalty that doesn't exist as long as nobody takes the Journeying word at which point they exist only to be rendered irrelevant? Placebo powers?

QuoteHad you played the game, or just read the rules on paper?

Paper only so far, and of course I know that playing in practice can feel different. But I'm pretty good at game mechanics impressions. This also comes from me reading different players reactions online. Generally good reviews about the word system, but the feeling of sameyness followed online as well.

QuoteDo these sound like different mechanics to you?

Il be honest; that felt kinda patronizing. I know how re-fluffing works. Im not a child.
Maybe for you it works to make samey mechanics feel like exciting different actions: But for me, it serves to make exciting different actions all feel the same.

It feels very videogamey. And reminds me of D&D 4e.

QuoteYou can house rule that facts are similar to FATE aspects.

I HATE FATE. I HAAAATE FATE. Not on some deeply personal level I just hate to play it and I hate to run it.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114892I assumed that Godbound didn't need sleep, and didn't need food, and wouldn't lose their sense of direction. But apparently you need a power for it. And if you don't have it then traveling and not eating incurs penalties....That don't exist and are not listed anywhere, and would otherwise need to orient themselves....with rules that don't exist.

Which mythological gods don't need to eat, drink, or sleep? A great many myths revolve around divine feasts, victualing, or falling asleep at inopportune times. It doesn't fit well with monotheistic deities, but a Godbound isn't much to be mistaken for the Creator. As for the penalties, there will be extremely few situations in which a Godbound can't find some way to get a bite to eat or a drink of water. If those situations do roll up, well, I assume the GM can figure out some appropriate penalties.

In general, Godbound are gods of their particular spheres. Outside of those spheres, they're pretty much humans. The general point of most of their conflicts is that a given Godbound has a limited toolbox of incredibly potent abilities that may or may not be applicable to what they actually want to do. How do you stop a civil war when you're a god of storms and plagues? How do you defend your cult when you're a god of wisdom and music? Within those spheres you're almost unstoppable by conventional mortal means. Outside them, well, you have to think a little harder.

Quote from: SineNomine;1114900Which mythological gods don't need to eat, drink, or sleep? A great many myths revolve around divine feasts, victualing, or falling asleep at inopportune times.

I assumed that was optional. But that's the issue isn't it: I'm left to assume. To me, it's hard to assume when you don't know whats divine or not. They're totally human, except when their not, and things are trivial for them (So no need to roll unless its important) until they are not (So roll for everything that's outside their purview that we don't even have mechanical reference points for). All based on assumption that change.

That said Il repeat that I like most of the stuff: I just dislike the chore mechanical resolution. I don't need the laws of physics mapped to a T, I just need a little more.

Also are you a representative of the company or just a fan of the products?

I'm a representative of the company in the sense that I'm its only employee, Kevin Crawford. As for the question of spelling things out more clearly in the book, the main issue is that questions often arise that I cannot plausibly foresee. The idea that Godbound should not need to eat, drink or sleep... I admit I never imagined that someone could assume that until you brought it up. Obviously it's an assumption that can be made, as you have, but it's nothing that would ever cross my mind and so I couldn't expect to explicitly define it in the book in the first place. I'm sure there are many other assumptions that I'm not noticing in the text.

Ultimately, however, Godbound is about as large a book as I can sell profitably at a price point the market will pay. If I'm given the choice between putting in ten pages of edge-case handling or ten pages of additional playable content, I'm going to go with the latter. It's my estimation that that balance tends to give the best value to the widest number of readers.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114892Il be honest; that felt kinda patronizing. I know how re-fluffing works. Im not a child.

Didn't mean it like that.  I just like explaining things in detail when I can.

Quote from: SineNomine;1114906I'm a representative of the company in the sense that I'm its only employee, Kevin Crawford. As for the question of spelling things out more clearly in the book, the main issue is that questions often arise that I cannot plausibly foresee.

Il fully take the responsibility that these are complaints coming from my personal preferences. Don't lose any sleep over it.
Notice I wrote down "Concerns" not "Criticisms". I know OSR type folk love this sort of game. Its just got some bagaboos with me.

Again even if I don't like everything, the things I love about your games is that I can always take something away from them.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114908Didn't mean it like that.  I just like explaining things in detail when I can.

Fair enough. I understand.