So I'm someone who's looking to run an OSR campaign in the future, and in general I like the retro-clone feel of "old D&D but cleaned up." However, one thing that grinds my gears about d&D in general (both OSR and 5E) is the way magic-user spells work and how stupidly "potteresque" some of them feel. I refrain from calling them "overpowered," because a magic-user should feel somewhat "overpowered". But spells like Rope Trick and Create Food and the like just seem ridiculous and counter to the sort of game world I'd like to build as a DM (High fantasy but somewhat grounded).

The sort of magic-users I'd like to see are ones with specific disciplines and spells made for a school of magic or elemental focus. So for instance, a pyromancer could call lightning and flame, have resistance to lava, etc while an aquamancer can freeze or melt water, manipulate molecules in the air "blood-bend," etc. To me that feels more "proper" than a wizard that has dominion over all elements, creates food, can turn back time, create pocket dimensions out of thin air and get the best seats at the Lakers game without paying. Even a system which just severely downplayed those kinds of spells and left in magic missile, elementalism and monster summoning would be preferable to that. I want my players to feel like Merlin, not Mister Mxyzptlk.

I've been looking at Low Fantasy Gaming as an option, but any suggestions would be great. I'd like something that's preferably cheap and/or free, easy for noob players to understand, and with magic that isn't something from a Monty Python sketch.

Quote from: MJAshwood;1114370I'd like something that's preferably cheap and/or free, easy for noob players to understand, and with magic that isn't something from a Monty Python sketch.

Were people in the '70s smarter than people today are?

It's not OSR, but Shadow of the Demon Lord can do everything that you are looking for without excessive complexity.

Basic Fantasy and Advanced Labyrinth Lord is what I recommend.

Quote from: jeff37923;1114374Basic Fantasy and Advanced Labyrinth Lord is what I recommend.

Basic Fantasy's cheap, but I've heard REALLY good things about Advanced Labyrinth Lord. The Basic Fantasy spell list's nice and simple though, and it's super accessible.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1114371Were people in the '70s smarter than people today are?

People in the '70s didn't have video games and such where you use abuse cheap skills. Like I said, my players will be new to OSR, if not D&D period, and much of their experience with RPGs will come from stuff like Skyrim, aka "basket-bandit simulator." So stuff like that just sounds like a headache to deal with, and I'd rather have a game whose spell list fits the sort of game I'd like to run without me houseruling too much or saying "no, you can't use that."

...that, and I personally think those spells are dumb.

It's a bit odd that you feel that create food and rope trick aren't "grounded", when they are literally both spells based on real world magic from mythology/religion/folklore. But pretty much any actual retro clone will have those, since they were from D&D.  You might look at some non D&D based ones, like Dungeon Crawl Classics

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1114371Were people in the '70s smarter than people today are?

People might not have been, but gamers were.

Quote from: MJAshwood;1114380Basic Fantasy's cheap, but I've heard REALLY good things about Advanced Labyrinth Lord. The Basic Fantasy spell list's nice and simple though, and it's super accessible.

Both games can be downloaded for free as well.

The thought (at least in my campaign) was that magic is a force used as a catalyst for elemental power, so if you have fire or a flame rune nearby you can create fireballs, magic missile can simply be cast by using the "force" or "ether" or whatever, etc. It's a force that can manipulate things, but cannot say, make a rabbit disappear from nothing. It manipulates, but needs catalysts to do so.

Stuff like "I'll create food from nothing," while it does have mythological roots, doesn't fit the mold of the campaign I'd personally like to run. A lot of the spells like earthquakes and stuff are things I can houserule with restrictions, but zipping in and out of dimensions and such feels a bit much. Then again, I COULD houserule just about anything, but I'm just kind of on the hunt for new rulesets in general.

Quote from: MJAshwood;1114422The thought (at least in my campaign) was that magic is a force used as a catalyst for elemental power, so if you have fire or a flame rune nearby you can create fireballs, magic missile can simply be cast by using the "force" or "ether" or whatever, etc. It's a force that can manipulate things, but cannot say, make a rabbit disappear from nothing. It manipulates, but needs catalysts to do so.

Stuff like "I'll create food from nothing," while it does have mythological roots, doesn't fit the mold of the campaign I'd personally like to run. A lot of the spells like earthquakes and stuff are things I can houserule with restrictions, but zipping in and out of dimensions and such feels a bit much. Then again, I COULD houserule just about anything, but I'm just kind of on the hunt for new rulesets in general.

What about declaring that spells require a material component? Create Food and Water requires a bit of food and a drop of water in order to work.

Not exactly OSR but old enough to feel right.

Dragon Warriors - PDF is free and PoD is like $7 bucks from drivethru.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/90926/Dragon-Warriors?term=Dragon+Warr

Hey, that's actually a good idea! Like, "infusing" grains with healing energy, fire and water runes can make porridge, etc.

Quote from: MJAshwood;1114370The sort of magic-users I'd like to see are ones with specific disciplines and spells made for a school of magic or elemental focus. So for instance, a pyromancer could call lightning and flame, have resistance to lava, etc while an aquamancer can freeze or melt water, manipulate molecules in the air "blood-bend," etc.

You should check out The Conjuror, an OSR-friendly supplement that nixes the standard D&D spell lists in favor of Aspects and Processes, which are used to create more free-form spells.  I haven't used it in practice, but it looks pretty nifty and definitely along the lines of what you're describing.

Quote from: MJAshwood;1114370The sort of magic-users I'd like to see are ones with specific disciplines and spells made for a school of magic or elemental focus. So for instance, a pyromancer could call lightning and flame, have resistance to lava, etc while an aquamancer can freeze or melt water, manipulate molecules in the air "blood-bend," etc. To me that feels more "proper" than a wizard that has dominion over all elements, creates food, can turn back time, create pocket dimensions out of thin air and get the best seats at the Lakers game without paying. Even a system which just severely downplayed those kinds of spells and left in magic missile, elementalism and monster summoning would be preferable to that. I want my players to feel like Merlin, not Mister Mxyzptlk.

Gurps Magic (the book) is exactly that, but it's neither free nor OSR.

I like supplements like Black Pudding that add a bunch of cool classes and add-ons for Basic/Advanced-Labyrinth Lord type games. if you are looking for more spells, magic items and monsters, I have written a blog since 2009 that has a few additional options, link in signature.

Quote from: nightlamp;1114486You should check out The Conjuror, an OSR-friendly supplement that nixes the standard D&D spell lists in favor of Aspects and Processes, which are used to create more free-form spells.  I haven't used it in practice, but it looks pretty nifty and definitely along the lines of what you're describing.

Quote from: bat;1114497I like supplements like Black Pudding that add a bunch of cool classes and add-ons for Basic/Advanced-Labyrinth Lord type games. if you are looking for more spells, magic items and monsters, I have written a blog since 2009 that has a few additional options, link in signature.

Awesome suggestions, thanks!