Quote from: jhkim;1113245That seems similar to how I've treated sandboxy campaigns, though it's been a while since I've run one.

Having 5 co-regents seems like a nice grouping - but even if the structure isn't that neat, I'll generally outline 3 to 6 factions, and group events by what those factions as a whole are trying to do, rather than tracking individual characters or more detailed groups.

Yeah, IMO it is easier and more accurate to process a broader abstraction than loose clusters of high precision. Like bags of marbles instead of handfuls of marbles, y'know?

The Birthright Regents thankfully can hold larger domain beyond a single province, keeping the faction processing manageable, even if their overlapping structure (like layered transparencies) made each province a complex & individualized mix. For that I like to think of the layered transparencies analogy because it reminds me of colored washes and glazes producing a new color. One swatch of blue domain might end up a fascinating mix of green, purple, or brown, as the other regents overlap, meaning the land's character is "more than just plain blue" and forces me to discern the composition of and differences between the "muddy browns."

I build fantasy worlds. Ever since my first gaming group dissolved in 1982, I have pretty much worked on designing these new fantasy worlds during the down time. I'll usually detail the kingdoms and major cities, along with resources, prominent leaders, then strongholds, and then do a short campaign guide featuring cultural details on the individual regions. Finally I'll do one or more very detailed maps of an area about the size of a Barony, which includes, towns strongholds, and notable locations…

Here is an example of a Strategic Map for Tamerthya, one of the oldest of my fantasy realms (1992).





Finishing the last two maps back in 2011...





Then here is the kingdom of Snowdonia in Tamerthya… Scale 5 miles to the Hex (1992)






Details about the Kingdom of Snowdonia/Crystalmyr (1992)
Mixed Economy, Iron Age, Patrilineal, Oligarchy (Elite Ruling Council). Conscripted Army
Units - tactical: 10-50   strategic: 500+
Pantheon: Moderate
Pantheon Organization:  Heroes
Pantheon Size: Large, 4 Great Deities, 4 Intermediate Deities, 5 lesser deities, 4 Demigods
Ancient Elven God (Spheres) Marriage, Music, Wisdom
Goddess of Magic and Sorcery
God of the Oceans
God of Hunting

Intermediate Deities
Goddess of Wisdom
God of Sun and War
God of Elemental Magic
Goddess of Agriculture

Lesser Deities
God of Death  
God of War
God of Fire
Goddess of Fire
Goddess of Fate

Demigods
God of the Sky
Goddess of Death (Married to the God of Death)
Goddess of Fertility/Birth
Goddess of the Earth




...and then finally a local city map, Crystalmyr, in Snowdonia. Scale, a single 5 Mile Hex... (1999)




Crystalmyr, Snowdonia, Facing the Docks


Crystalmyr, Kingdom of Snowdonia, Tamerthya


.

In most of my games, the players barely scratch the surface of the lore and knowledge that make up my campaign worlds. It is rich and robust, and filled with details both large and small which lend authenticity to the game world...

Here are some of my original notes about Snowdonia and Crystalmyr, now twenty-seven years old...

The Crystalmyr Map Key - 1992



My original first concept map of Crystalmyr when I was deciding how Tamerthya should be arrayed for the players to explore... - 1992


My original notes about the Ice Elves, the Talari, of Crystalmyr - 1992
Yes the Elven names here are all featuring the Quenya pronunciation with a translation of their meaning into English, I could write it all in Quenya but then you probably wouldn't be able to read it. Note the custom made list of unique spells that Ice Elf wizards can cast. Also featured here, a few of the names of the Elven NPC's. There is a separate 42 page adventure that I wrote for players that want to venture from the port city of Snowdonia into the realms of the Ice Elves located in the frosty and hostile wilderness of Crystalmyr.

Truly, thou art the Daddy of all games

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Why 5 mile hexes?  I've seen a bit of debate about hex sizes and travel times... just curious as to what your assumptions and rules were.

Quote from: Eirikrautha;1113494Why 5 mile hexes?  I've seen a bit of debate about hex sizes and travel times... just curious as to what your assumptions and rules were.

OD&D used it in Underworld & Wilderness Adventures. Judges Guild developed it into a complete mapping system that found it way into many of a campaign.

The hex grid used in this image from the Judges Guild mapping system. Although the below was probably the grid used in the Astrogators Chartbook due to the blue ink of the grid. But it was the same used in the Campaign Hexagon Mapping system.




I recreated a version of it here

http://www.batintheattic.com/wilderlands/JudgesGuildRegionalHexMap.pdf

I think hexes are generally best on the 1-2-4-8 (or 12) - 16 (or 24) mile scale. Though I do use 15 miles for my Judges Guild Wilderlands campaign, but those hexes being hand drawn are unusually full of content.

I particularly like using 1 mile/hex with hexmapping software since the scale lets me show actual terrain detail with creative use of the mapping icons, and I can have a realistic settlement density for medieval-western-Europe, if it's that kind of setting, eg:

Reditch - nice. I've used Wethwick in the past (sounds right, but doesn't actually exist AFAIK).
Large road atlases of the UK/Europe are your friend when it comes to town names. Add a letter here, lose a letter there. Perfect.

Quote from: estar;1113498OD&D used it in Underworld & Wilderness Adventures. Judges Guild developed it into a complete mapping system that found it way into many of a campaign.

The hex grid used in this image from the Judges Guild mapping system. Although the below was probably the grid used in the Astrogators Chartbook due to the blue ink of the grid. But it was the same used in the Campaign Hexagon Mapping system.

I recreated a version of it here

http://www.batintheattic.com/wilderlands/JudgesGuildRegionalHexMap.pdf

Correct, this is a Judges Guild page from Astrogators Chartbook. I especially liked that the hexes were all numbered, as it made it easy to key my maps using the hex numbers to add in a settlement, locale, event, or encounter.

Your PDF is much appreciated, Thank You, I'm down to two Astrogators chartbooks and one blank book of the Campaign Hexagon Mapping System, and have been photocopying my originals of these in order to make new JG Wilderlands maps. I'm completely out of the old JG rough parchment 17"x22" blank hex maps. I mailed my last two copies to Kyrin Eis last year so she could create her own old school wilderlands style campaign setting.

The discussion about hex sizes has been ongoing for a number of years, and the most common I have seen is 5, 6, 10, 12, and 20 mile hexes for mapping. I'll outline some of the advantages and disadvantages of using each, and some people actually like using another scale like leagues, or Kilometers (Depending on the game being played) Twilight 2000 for example, used metric kilometers, Later edition Gamma World used Metric, while the earlier edition used Imperial. The Fantasy Trip, Tunnels & Trolls, GURPS and Traveller also use Metric. Chivalry & Sorcery, and Arduin used Imperial measurement (Miles, stones, pounds (lb), etc.). In short measurements depended heavily on the game designers and what they were doing with the game. C&S for example, had a default European Feudal campaign setting included named Arden which included maps at the scale of 1"=12 miles. Arden included a laminated transparent 1/4" black hexgrid overlay sheet, which you can still buy from Gamescience by the way, that makes it easy to convert any map into a hex grid map.

I prefer five mile hexes for a number of reasons...
1) Because 0D&D used it as the default hex scale based on the Avalon Hill Outdoor Survival Game Map.
2) It was the default scale for the Wilderlands campaign setting used by Judges Guild.

Bob Bledsaw had a really well organized map scale system which used 5 mile hexes, and you could literally zoom in on a section and make a map with 25 two-tenths of a mile sub-hexes that made up one five mile hex, then the .2 mile hex could be further broken down as well into 25 forty-two foot scale hexes which happens to be almost an almost perfect tactical scale. a man walking over open ground can walk an average of about three miles an hour and sprint about 5 miles an hour. So over open ground, an average ten hour hike will cover thirty miles. The same on horseback (walk), is the same as a man running, so fifty miles a day, (10 hexes) for a light horse. Bob chose five miles per hex based on over-the-horizon visibility, where the basic rule of how far a character could actually see depended on the height the character was above ground level. Allow 5 miles of visibility per foot of height, from 1-10', with an additional 2 miles per foot from 11-50' and 1 mile per foot above that. So using the five mile hex, and the campaign hexagon system, as,  A GM I could easily determine how far away the characters can see on a clear day, A six foot man, would be able to see about 30 miles maximum to the horizon, and I could easily look on the map, and tell the player what kind of terrain they would see out to the limit of their vision. You are a 12' giant, no problem, you can see out to the horizon which is about 54 miles away for you. If your character happened to be a dragon whose head was 20' tall, your visibility was 70 miles, then the curvature of the earth would mean you could no longer discern what was beneath the horizon, but everything out to that 70 mile point, would be visible to you, ...if you were a dragon. This also matched up with the original D&D 5 mile hex scale very nicely. Overall, It was simple, elegant, and simply awesome, and remains my preferred working scale for mapping for precisely this reason.

Judges Guild also included an Obstruction probability chart precisely defining what is blocking the characters view to the horizon, so GM's could make a random roll to describe obstructions like trees or hills, of specific features that are not immediately visible, but are above the horizon on a large scale JG map which was about 250 miles across by 150 miles from north to south, a map like my Crystalmyr regional map. This was also very useful for creating maps on the fly, during the course of the game.

The disadvantage to using 5 mile hexes, is that it breaks down at the tactical scale, with the smallest hexes being slightly larger than 42 feet across, which is really wonky with the 5 foot hex scale normally used (which itself was based on the 20mm miniatures scale where 5 feet = 1 inch. If your original miniature was 1" tall, it was considered to be five feet high.) so five foot hexes really made sense for determining character positioning with miniatures.

3,6, and 12 hexes were adopted as a mapping standard because of travel. a man walking over mostly level ground, would cover an average of 3 miles an hour, so one hex per hour is the rate of travel. Really easy for a GM to keep up with. A horse trotting or a man jogging goes about six miles an hour, nine at canter (or a man running), twelve Mph at a gallop, and eighteen miles per hour at an all out sprint, making any calculations for travel based on some multiple of three a snap for the GM.

I'm not really sure where ten mile hexes began being used as a standard, I only know that some people liked to use that scale, maybe 10 Miles to the inch, for their hand drawn maps? I don't know.

The original Greyhawk Folio used 20 mile hexes, and that was based on the scale of the Darlene Greyhawk map, which was the standard of the RPGA for many many years. a 20 mile hex, was about the immediate area of control for a small keep or tower, and represented about a days walk over to the next hex from the center of the hex a player happened to be in.

Mystara, the other original D&D campaign setting used 24 mile hexes for the original grand map, and all of the Gazeteers used 8 mile standard hexes. 24 miles represents a days walk over level wilderness with minor obstructions, 8 Mph happens to be the average speed of a briskly walking horse or a man running.

Here is part of the 0D&D chart for traveling, for reference;

Type - Number of Hexes per day
Man on foot - 3
Wagon or Cart - 4
Draft Horse - 5
Heavy Horse - 6
Medium Horse - 8
Light Horse - 10
Raft 10 (3)
Boat 15 (5)
Merchant 12
Galley 20 (6)

Numbers in parenthesis indicates movement through Swamps or Marshes. There is a movement penalty of 1 for groups over 100, and 2 for groups over 1,000 meaning that larger groups tended to move slower, and this was based on historical miniatures wargaming rules, probably Braunstein, or something similar.

My experience with actual horses was a bit different. I rode what would be called a medium horse (a cutting horse), and could easily cover thirty miles on mixed trails and in mountainous wilderness before lunch time, traveling mostly at a walk. My horseback travel through heavy timber, or arroyos, or up and down mountains was very slow though, usually averaging only about five miles an hour.

There are some other threads about this, here on TheRPGSite. Rob, any additional insights you'd care to share?

Quote from: S'mon;1113525I particularly like using 1 mile/hex with hexmapping software since the scale lets me show actual terrain detail with creative use of the mapping icons, and I can have a realistic settlement density for medieval-western-Europe, if it's that kind of setting...

Nice Map! I do enjoy looking at the superbly detailed Ordnance Survey maps from the UK, and have a few in my personal collection (The Roman map, and the map from about the time of the Crusades/Magna Charta) that I used for D&D and Runequest games from time-to-time.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1113596Correct, this is a Judges Guild page from Astrogators Chartbook. I especially liked that the hexes were all numbered, as it made it easy to key my maps using the hex numbers to add in a settlement, locale, event, or encounter.

Your PDF is much appreciated, Thank You, I'm down to two Astrogators chartbooks and one blank book of the Campaign Hexagon Mapping System, and have been photocopying my originals of these in order to make new JG Wilderlands maps. I'm completely out of the old JG rough parchment 17"x22" blank hex maps. I mailed my last two copies to Kyrin Eis last year so she could create her own old school wilderlands style campaign setting.

Well I can help you with that as well

22" by 17" JG Style Campaign map
http://www.batintheattic.com/wilderlands/JudgesGuildCampaignMap.pdf

I opted for minimalist border in both figuring people add in what they.

A thing that various Wilderlands have done, including myself, is try to found a source for the brown pebble paper used in the original maps. So such luck so far.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1113596The discussion about hex sizes has been ongoing for a number of years, and the most common I have seen is 5, 6, 10, 12, and 20 mile hexes for mapping.

My take is based on the Harn Map Scale which uses 12.5 miles per hex or 5 leagues per hex. Each league represent 1 hour of walking across level ground. A Harnic league being 2.5 miles.

That lead me to my regional map scale. Where each small hex is 1 league. Which is also has the same area of land as an average manor capable of supporting a knight.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1113596The disadvantage to using 5 mile hexes, is that it breaks down at the tactical scale, with the smallest hexes being slightly larger than 42 feet across, which is really wonky with the 5 foot hex scale normally used (which itself was based on the 20mm miniatures scale where 5 feet = 1 inch. If your original miniature was 1" tall, it was considered to be five feet high.) so five foot hexes really made sense for determining character positioning with miniatures.

The Scale wound up using is 12.5 miles/5 leagues to 2.5 miles/1 league (above) to .5 miles/ 12 minutes of walking (below) to 40 ft per hex to 5 ft per square. The last two don't evenly divide into the higher scale map. I chose 40 feet per hex for the outdoor map because it evenly divided into classic D&D movement rates.

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Quote from: GameDaddy;1113596My experience with actual horses was a bit different. I rode what would be called a medium horse (a cutting horse), and could easily cover thirty miles on mixed trails and in mountainous wilderness before lunch time, traveling mostly at a walk. My horseback travel through heavy timber, or arroyos, or up and down mountains was very slow though, usually averaging only about five miles an hour.

There are some other threads about this, here on TheRPGSite. Rob, any additional insights you'd care to share?

My understanding travel by horse over distance wasn't faster unless you had a string of horses that you can change periodically. The string can travel along with you. The important thing that each horse gets a period of travel not carrying anything. If you can deal with having a tired horse then yes a quicker pace can be maintained for a day or so. But then the horse needs a considerable rest period.

Quote from: S'mon;1113525I think hexes are generally best on the 1-2-4-8 (or 12) - 16 (or 24) mile scale. Though I do use 15 miles for my Judges Guild Wilderlands campaign, but those hexes being hand drawn are unusually full of content.

I particularly like using 1 mile/hex with hexmapping software since the scale lets me show actual terrain detail with creative use of the mapping icons, and I can have a realistic settlement density for medieval-western-Europe, if it's that kind of setting, eg:

Love that B/X Gazetteer style.

I lve all these labors of love on this thread. Keep it up, guys! Thanks for sharing!

Quote from: Opaopajr;1114234I lve all these labors of love on this thread. Keep it up, guys! Thanks for sharing!

Seriously, some of these posts make me feel inadequate--like I'm a lazy ass that should be doing better for my game. I need to get up my hex game, since I don't properly keep track of distances and tend to just wing it with the travel times. Lots of cool stuff here.

All I have right now is a pictorial style map (the site doesn't seem to allow me to load from my phone) I never got around finishing for an improvised campaign I started months ago and play irregularly. I currently don't have Photoshop so don't know if/when I'll get around doing more.

EDIT: Tried out Google Photos to see if this works, but they don't seem to have a way to directly link to the image, so I'll have to use a hyperlink instead. Map Here

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114239Seriously, some of these posts make me feel inadequate--like I'm a lazy ass that should be doing better for my game.

Different techniques suit different types of game. More input doesn't necessarily mean better output. Dice rolls and objective world state modelling are tools towards an end, not an end in themselves. Or at any rate, if they are an end in themselves for the hobbyist, be aware they may not help the play experience at the table. The times I've used the wrong tools for the job, it gets clear very quickly.