@Octopodes: does this even matter? The topic is about 5e.

As for myself, I'm a millennial and 5e fan. I'm also into other games, but I prefer 5e because it's so lightweight it makes it easy to just take what I like from those other games and add it into 5e.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1110539@Octopodes: does this even matter? The topic is about 5e.

As for myself, I'm a millennial and 5e fan. I'm also into other games, but I prefer 5e because it's so lightweight it makes it easy to just take what I like from those other games and add it into 5e.

No, it doesn't.  My bad.  I'm also theoretically a millennial albeit barely, and I'm also definitely not "ONLY" interested in 5e, but I took the question as 'for those millennials who ARE only into 5e, why would that be the case', as such an overgeneralization has to be hyperbolic in intent.  I highly doubt anyone who is on these boards as compared to the WOTC boards (or more likely, no boards at all) is within the scope of the people the OP is discussing.  That being said, what in your mind makes it easier to import to 5e vs say World of Darkness or some other system?  Even if another system has a given setup for something, it's generally not difficult to rip the system out wholesale and replace it with something else, the only real trouble is when you try to merge disparate systems in my experience.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1110421These. It's the gateway drug RPG. D&D always has been, due to cultural cache from the '70s fad boom to now and namebrand recognition over generations.

(You always want to lead with the biggest name to get the most people inside the circus... Then you can subdivide with side attractions. Once they enter the trap you can spring Kult on them soon after. )

I don't think anyone is disputing that D&D has always been by far the most popular RPG, and the gateway to other games. But some of us are suggesting that this latest boom has not seen D&D act as a gateway to other games. That the new players are pretty much all sticking with D&D exclusively.

I have no way to back up the numbers, but my sense is that while in the 90s or 2000s maybe 20-25 per cent of groups who played D&D would branch out at some point and try other games, that number is much smaller today. That the 5E era has seen D&D not only massively grow the tabletop RPG pie, but take an even bigger portion of that pie than it has traditionally. Other publishers and games do not seem to be enjoying the kind of uptick in participation you would expect during an RPG boom.

I *STILL* have not played or even read 5e yet. But I am hoping SHARK will find a way to publish material for it so I can find an excuse.

Quote from: Haffrung;1110546I don't think anyone is disputing that D&D has always been by far the most popular RPG, and the gateway to other games. But some of us are suggesting that this latest boom has not seen D&D act as a gateway to other games. That the new players are pretty much all sticking with D&D exclusively.

I have no way to back up the numbers, but my sense is that while in the 90s or 2000s maybe 20-25 per cent of groups who played D&D would branch out at some point and try other games, that number is much smaller today. That the 5E era has seen D&D not only massively grow the tabletop RPG pie, but take an even bigger portion of that pie than it has traditionally. Other publishers and games do not seem to be enjoying the kind of uptick in participation you would expect during an RPG boom.

1) That's pure speculation, anecdotal at best, and may be wildly incorrect.  Certainly that has not been my personal experience.

2) Even if it were the case, that would not necessarily mean smaller numbers going to other systems.  Let me give you a VERY theoretical example.  It may well be that whereas before say 5% of people (being very generous here) tried D&D, but they were the most hardcore of nerds and would have interest in Any system, so a solid 2.5% of people went on to other systems.  Let's say now 10% of people (again just roll with it) try D&D, but a lot of the other 5% of people picked up are far more casual in their interests and are only trying D&D because it's (relatively) cool, and they want to know what the fuss is about.  As other systems don't carry the same Geek Chic factor, they have no real interest, so of the additional 5% picking up games, only .5% are trying other systems.  That would mean 3% of people are trying other systems, a far lower percentage of those playing D&D (3/10 instead of 5/10), but the overall percentage of those playing other systems has still increased.

Again just speculation, wild speculation all around.  But it does bare clarification as to the intent of the question.  Is it "Why are so many folks interested in D&D compared to other systems", which is what I took it as and answered originally, or "Why are so few folks interested in other systems compared to ye olden days", which is a deceptively similar but entirely different question, and one with which I'd have to disagree with the premise.  I Don't think, for example, we've seen an overall decline in interest in non-D&D systems, and especially with the internet and the tools it provides, I think it's FAR easier to assemble a group for a non-D&D system than it was say 20-30 years ago.

Quote from: Haffrung;1110546I have no way to back up the numbers, but my sense is that while in the 90s or 2000s maybe 20-25 per cent of groups who played D&D would branch out at some point and try other games, that number is much smaller today. That the 5E era has seen D&D not only massively grow the tabletop RPG pie, but take an even bigger portion of that pie than it has traditionally. Other publishers and games do not seem to be enjoying the kind of uptick in participation you would expect during an RPG boom.

I don't have a link, and am going off of a faded memory ... but if I remember correctly, there is a quote from Steve Jackson during the height of GURPS popularity to the effect that the non-D&D games were quite ecstatic when they collectively got interest from 1/10th of the D&D market.  It's also a lagging indicator, and probably even more difficult to estimate today, due to the sheer number of other games out there.  

That is, it's more difficult for a heretofore D&D-only player that thinks they might want to try something else to determine which game they might want to try.  It's not as if they can go to a message board, say what their issues are with D&D, and ask for a good recommendation.   Of the answers they get, only a tiny slice will answer the question at all, and at least half of those will be someone recommending their favorite system instead of one that fits the stated needs.

Quote from: Giant Octopodes;1110545No, it doesn't.  My bad.  I'm also theoretically a millennial albeit barely, and I'm also definitely not "ONLY" interested in 5e, but I took the question as 'for those millennials who ARE only into 5e, why would that be the case', as such an overgeneralization has to be hyperbolic in intent.  I highly doubt anyone who is on these boards as compared to the WOTC boards (or more likely, no boards at all) is within the scope of the people the OP is discussing.  That being said, what in your mind makes it easier to import to 5e vs say World of Darkness or some other system?  Even if another system has a given setup for something, it's generally not difficult to rip the system out wholesale and replace it with something else, the only real trouble is when you try to merge disparate systems in my experience.

Millennial is a very broad term that gets thrown around a lot. When people mean 18 - 22 year olds they're really talking about Gen Z, or "zoomers". I'm taking millennial back for my older age group.

As for why 5e, it's the classic case of D&D being what I know already. It's a lot easier to take a few ideas and make them 5e-ified, than to take on an entire new game system. It also helps that D&D has a way bigger audience, so I can just introduce those elements into 5e games instead of having to ditch the community.

I think 5e really encourages this with its modularity, since it's not so rigidly made, as compared to 3.5 or 4e.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1110548I *STILL* have not played or even read 5e yet. But I am hoping SHARK will find a way to publish material for it so I can find an excuse.

There is no reason to.

Are you looking for 4E D&D with a ton of mechanics removed and lathered in nostalgic themes? No? Then it's rather useless.

5e has thematic strength, a robust level 1-4 experience, and good marketing.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1110558There is no reason to.

Are you looking for 4E D&D with a ton of mechanics removed and lathered in nostalgic themes? No? Then it's rather useless.

5e has thematic strength, a robust level 1-4 experience, and good marketing.

That's more-or-less the impression I got from reading about others experiences with it. I'm also not sure I'm even a fan of Advantage/Disadvantage which a lot of people seem to like and port to other D20 systems, but I'll reserve judgement until I have occasion to use it myself.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1110559That's more-or-less the impression I got from reading about others experiences with it. I'm also not sure I'm even a fan of Advantage/Disadvantage which a lot of people seem to like and port to other D20 systems, but I'll reserve judgement until I have occasion to use it myself.

I think it's worth giving it a chance. What I normally see it described as is a streamlined, simpler 2e. And you'll have a lot of people to play with.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1110573I think it's worth giving it a chance. What I normally see it described as is a streamlined, simpler 2e. And you'll have a lot of people to play with.

Oh sure, I wouldn't turn my nose up at giving it a shot. I mainly haven't picked it up yet because my current groups are happy with what we've got already and they're largely uninterested in D&D in general (some are the "been there, done that" types and a few are the "eh, but we could just do X for heroic fantasy instead" types). That's not to say I wouldn't be interested in giving it a try with others at some point though, or running it for my wife's nieces and nephews for instance.

Streamlined 2e sounds nice. Though I did like many of 2e's wonkiness quotients and odd little lumps and scars.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1110559That's more-or-less the impression I got from reading about others experiences with it. I'm also not sure I'm even a fan of Advantage/Disadvantage which a lot of people seem to like and port to other D20 systems, but I'll reserve judgement until I have occasion to use it myself.

The Black Hack 2e makes better use of that system anyways.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1110580The Black Hack 2e makes better use of that system anyways.

Is that also the one that uses the usage die for consumables?

Quote from: Antiquation!;1110582Is that also the one that uses the usage die for consumables?

It does. 2e has a table to convert UdX to a fixed amount of uses if that is what the GM wants.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1110590It does. 2e has a table to convert UdX to a fixed amount of uses if that is what the GM wants.

Hmm. I might have to take a look then, if for no other reason than to jack some of the stuff to use with TFT. I'm open to the idea of OSR, just haven't felt any particular need to dive in yet (aside from grabbing some of Kevin Crawford's stuff and some other miscellaneous products containing good system-neutral assets).