Zombies in 3e are so strong compared to 5e. That's crazy...

And it's nothing compared to the groups of ogre zombies. Each 8d12+3 HP, attack +9, 1d8+9 damage slams.

Zombies are a more interesting threat, if their bite carries the Zombie Virus, and they think you taste like chicken.

Quote from: Razor 007;1110443Zombies are a more interesting threat, if their bite carries the Zombie Virus, and they think you taste like chicken.

Maybe.

There are a lot of ways to do zombies, and you're not strictly limited to how they're presented in the book.  If you have to be dropped/killed by a zombie to rise as a zombie, it doesn't generally change the way you fight them - you're trying not to go down anyway.  If they carry a disease, well, you might try to keep them out of melee as much as possible, but getting bitten is a problem you deal with AFTER combat.  

If you want to change the way zombies play, every time they go down, they can spend a full action to rise again.  They just keep coming.  To finish a zombie you have to coup d'grace them while they're down, or, if you score a critical hit they make a save versus death - failure means they die and stay dead.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1110498Maybe.

There are a lot of ways to do zombies, and you're not strictly limited to how they're presented in the book.  If you have to be dropped/killed by a zombie to rise as a zombie, it doesn't generally change the way you fight them - you're trying not to go down anyway.  If they carry a disease, well, you might try to keep them out of melee as much as possible, but getting bitten is a problem you deal with AFTER combat.  

If you want to change the way zombies play, every time they go down, they can spend a full action to rise again.  They just keep coming.  To finish a zombie you have to coup d'grace them while they're down, or, if you score a critical hit they make a save versus death - failure means they die and stay dead.

I really like that.  100% stolen.  Thanks!

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1110498Maybe.

There are a lot of ways to do zombies, and you're not strictly limited to how they're presented in the book.  If you have to be dropped/killed by a zombie to rise as a zombie, it doesn't generally change the way you fight them - you're trying not to go down anyway.  If they carry a disease, well, you might try to keep them out of melee as much as possible, but getting bitten is a problem you deal with AFTER combat.  

If you want to change the way zombies play, every time they go down, they can spend a full action to rise again.  They just keep coming.  To finish a zombie you have to coup d'grace them while they're down, or, if you score a critical hit they make a save versus death - failure means they die and stay dead.

The way 5e does it with a regular zombie is to have them make a CON save after hitting 1 hit point. I think I might like this one more since it feels like you made progress even if they come back.

In GURPS, an unarmed unskilled zombie can absorb an awful lot of punishment especially if you just target the torso or use stabbing weapons, but you can still break their arms and legs with a mace, or sever their limbs. They may still keep coming, but it makes them a lot less dangerous if they have no usable arms or are dragging themselves along the ground.

One thing that's confusing to me about this module too is that there is a "zombie workroom" with unassembled body parts not yet used to make more zombies. Is that the author confusing a different kind of undead or is it standard that D&D zombies can be assembled from parts rather than being a body reanimated with magic?

I notice too that if the necromancer dies, the zombies on that level all collapse... but there are zombies on other levels too who would've been made by the same necromancer, so does that imply that the author meant all zombies in the whole dungeon, or that only the zombies on that level are rebuilt from parts and not yet lasting, or something else?

Quote from: Skarg;1110572In GURPS, an unarmed unskilled zombie can absorb an awful lot of punishment especially if you just target the torso or use stabbing weapons, but you can still break their arms and legs with a mace, or sever their limbs. They may still keep coming, but it makes them a lot less dangerous if they have no usable arms or are dragging themselves along the ground.

One thing that's confusing to me about this module too is that there is a "zombie workroom" with unassembled body parts not yet used to make more zombies. Is that the author confusing a different kind of undead or is it standard that D&D zombies can be assembled from parts rather than being a body reanimated with magic?

I notice too that if the necromancer dies, the zombies on that level all collapse... but there are zombies on other levels too who would've been made by the same necromancer, so does that imply that the author meant all zombies in the whole dungeon, or that only the zombies on that level are rebuilt from parts and not yet lasting, or something else?

These all sound like module specific issues. Zombies generally are animated by foul magic, but in D&D you can say pretty much anything makes a zombie.

Quote from: Skarg;1110572One thing that's confusing to me about this module too is that there is a "zombie workroom" with unassembled body parts not yet used to make more zombies. Is that the author confusing a different kind of undead or is it standard that D&D zombies can be assembled from parts rather than being a body reanimated with magic?

There's no real rule about what you turn into a zombie.  If combining the corpses of an elephant and an ogre let you bring up a weird Centaur-like hybrid, rule of cool says 'go for it' while there are no metaphysics to explain how it won't work.  

Generally D&D draws a hard line between a flesh golem (stitched together from other corpses a la Frankenstein's monster) and a zombie, but sometimes they don't.

Ah, ok, so it's up to a module and/or DM to say how such things work and it'd be normal to have different necromancers and zombies work in different ways according to whatever the DM prefers in each case. Thanks.

Unlike other kinds of undead (where a living person begins transforming before dying, like with vampires), it seems to me that a zombie should not be more powerful if made from the corpse of a skillful fighter; why would skill in life that vanished before it ever became a zombie have any effect on its combat ability? But in Dawn of the Dead, zombies went to places familiar to them, so maybe there's some lingering memory of what it did in life. Perhaps a metaphysical question of whether the skill resides in the brain or leaves the body with the soul.

More HPs follows naturally from the need to mostly dismember a zombie to stop it. Damage is harder to rationalize without some handwaving over the necromantic power that animates them; giving them appropriate weapons might be better.

Quote from: rawma;1110694Unlike other kinds of undead (where a living person begins transforming before dying, like with vampires), it seems to me that a zombie should not be more powerful if made from the corpse of a skillful fighter; why would skill in life that vanished before it ever became a zombie have any effect on its combat ability? But in Dawn of the Dead, zombies went to places familiar to them, so maybe there's some lingering memory of what it did in life. Perhaps a metaphysical question of whether the skill resides in the brain or leaves the body with the soul.

More HPs follows naturally from the need to mostly dismember a zombie to stop it. Damage is harder to rationalize without some handwaving over the necromantic power that animates them; giving them appropriate weapons might be better.

As far as the "enhanced abilities from who they were in life" one of the Drizzt books actually addresses that perfectly.  It has a zombie formed with just a piece of the host body's soul, to make a much more powerful zombie than would normally exist.  However, with the good comes the bad- despite the soul making it much more formidable, it also raises the potential for the soul to resist your implanted instructions.  Clearly such creatures are possible in D&D, though certainly they're not the norm.

Quote from: Giant Octopodes;1110698As far as the "enhanced abilities from who they were in life" one of the Drizzt books actually addresses that perfectly.  It has a zombie formed with just a piece of the host body's soul, to make a much more powerful zombie than would normally exist.  However, with the good comes the bad- despite the soul making it much more formidable, it also raises the potential for the soul to resist your implanted instructions.  Clearly such creatures are possible in D&D, though certainly they're not the norm.

There's room for a lot of additional monsters and variations in D&D; and there are monsters that are a waste (as they are usually built around a trick that only worked before everyone read the books). But basic zombies do fill a good niche for my game; there's revenants, mummies, liches and probably others I'm not thinking of if you need "animated corpse with a little extra". I would like it better if monster names were not so firmly linked to the "standard" stats; easy enough to change in a longer running campaign but hard with short/one shot adventures.