Quote from: Sunsword;1105323The problem is that people who are vocal about not liking the change are getting kicked out of Facebook groups and banned on RPG.NET.

A french player got banned for asking why Americans were still so sensitive about a 140 year old issue. He called the RPG.NET SJW Squad pussies.

The French player was NOT calling the SJWs pussies. This is the text he was banned for:

"I'm not saying you are wrong or a bunch of pussies, or that we are an insensitive remorseless lot. I guess it has to do with school, éducation, politics and so on. I don't have the reason to this "différence", I'm just amazed that it's so clear."

He was trying to make clear he wasn't insulting the SJWs with his questions regarding why this is a sensatige issue to Americans, and he used a bit of off-color language. However, that was all that was needed (using a gendered slur) to give the mod an excuse the ban this user. Given that this word has been used before by the cool kids on rpg.net without any sanction given I'm sure the real reason was that the mod couldn't tolerate any wrongthink going on at rpg.net, and banning the French user was an easy method to achieve this.

Here's an example of the Wyzard engaging in some sort of self-indulgent fiction writing and using the term:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/in-which-i-screw-around-with-review-some-tft-solo-modules.803555/page-2#post-21073733

Here's another example of the term being used. In this same thread the same mod that banned the French player is engaging with the poster who used the word pussies without any worries:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/boring-personal-shit-in-which-i-make-questionable-life-choices.780903/page-14#post-20392226

Referencing the word pussies is only a ban worthy offense when it suits the political needs of a mod.

The big purple is a puissant and tumescent place... of its own delirium. Let us not go there, for it is a silly place.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1105073That's the issue. There are very few gamers that want to play in an actual "real" wild west. There isn't a single "real" wild west game that's even close the popularity of Deadlands. The wacky alt-history stuff was the main appeal.

Next, the new version of Space: 1889 won't have spaceships because spaceships didn't exist in the real 1889.

Now that you mention it, a James Bond game set in an alternate 1962 where the Nazis won WW2 sounds pretty cool.

The real wild west was WAY more interesting than a wild west where the civil war was still going on.
In the real wild west you had all kinds of confederates (Democrats) fighting with the forces of order and progress (Republicans).

The wild west was the much messier AFTERMATH of the civil war. If the civil war was still happening, that wouldn't be happening.

Also, you're trying to make it sound like the central divergent point of deadlands was "It's like the wild west but we get to play gallant and heroic confederate officers and deny the reality of slavery", rather than "it's like the wild west but with evil supernatural monsters and forces".

Quote from: Rhedyn;1105077It's fun to see Pundit so torn. While this change is mainly because actual people expressed real concern to Shane at conventions, it's also making the setting more historically accurate and make a lot more sense.

I'm not the teeny tiniest bit torn. Look back at my record, on my blogs and on almost any other deadlands thread in the history of this site: it has ALWAYS been my unequivocal position that the alt-history of Deadlands was moronic, and that it was little more than an attempt to whitewash the CSA and free it from the stain of slavery. Always.

The author may be finally doing it for all the wrongest reasons, but it's still a plus that he's doing it, because the previous setting was both moronic and disgusting.

Quote from: tenbones;1105083No. It's like saying you're doing an RPG where the conceit of WWII is magic appears and the Nazis didn't get crushed for and existed into 1965.

No, it's like a setting where the Nazis weren't crushed because magic appears and then we all learn they were actually really wonderful and noble and gallant people and they quickly freed the Jews and even let them be SS officers.

I disagree with the change, for both an in-game and out of game reason.

In-game, the presence of ghost rock and its steampunk super-weapons in primarily confederate areas would have instantly restarted the war.  It would be like Germans stumbling across Hitler's secret atomic UFO fleet a week after WWII ended; you can bet they wouldn't have stayed surrendered at that point.  A better way to eliminate the CSA would have been for all the freaky things going on to make them realize, "Holy shit, the dead are rising and literally Satan has showed up in California, we have to drop this whole war thing right now and stick together or we're all fucked."  A peaceful-ish resolution to the war would then have been less likely to reignite with the abrupt addition of super-powerful weapons, and the CSA would still be gone.

Out of game, the change accomplishes none of the stated goals.  If a GM is the sort of person to go on a weird racist tangent, making the confederacy lose isn't going to change that.  Billy Bob the former confederate soldier can show up and be racist just as easily as Billy Bob the current confederate soldier.  Anyone who's going to use a wild west setting as an excuse to be really cringey about minorities is STILL going to be cringey about minorities after this retcon.  It took the country a century after the end of the war to get less shitty to minorities, north and south alike, Deadlands isn't exactly going to be awash with affirmative action in the 19th century, regardless of the existence or lack thereof of the CSA.  The only actual solution, both before and after the retcon, is to find a GM who isn't an ass.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1105351No, it's like a setting where the Nazis weren't crushed because magic appears and then we all learn they were actually really wonderful and noble and gallant people and they quickly freed the Jews and even let them be SS officers.

What percentage, in your estimation, of the populace of the 3rd Reich were more than mere tag-alongs?
Anyway, if THAT was problem, you'd only have to retcon out the noble and gallant part.

Also, lets not forget that the CSA isn't vanishing from Deadlands.

The South losing the Civil War doesn't mean you can't have Southern PCs and NPCs.  It doesn't mean there isn't a whole load of Southerners looking for ghost rock with the firm intention of restarting the war so the South rises again.

All the characters in Tarantino's HATEFUL EIGHT can easily be in any Deadlands game.

Considering how few Southerners owned slaves and how many poor Southerners suffered in the post-Civil War era, you could easily see CSA storylines in Deadlines involving Southern NPCs loyal to their states and southern culture without a concern for slavery issues.

So lets get this straight. The setting allready has some alternate timelines right? (Something I was not aware of till this thread.)

Then what is the problem aside from it seems to be changing the core setting, and may or may not be for PC reasons? I mean in Gamma World, Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance this would be a Tuesday. :rolleyes:

I know all too well changing an established setting can be an irk point. In part because more oft than not its to gouge the players to buy the setting material all over again. Or the changes just feel wrong somehow.

Quote from: Omega;1105410In part because more oft than not its to gouge the players to buy the setting material all over again.

Really triggers my synapses.

"This new edition of this rpg will be different."
"OMG NOOOOOOO!"
"You could always just keep playing the older edition if you want."
"OMG NOOOOOOO!"

Gamers. LOL.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1105412Really triggers my synapses.

Same. I dont mind when it is just adding new areas or updating/advancing the timeline. Or the changes to the land make some sort of sense and do not just jettison the old for something new. Dragonlance is possibly a good example of that. Probably Forgotten Realms as well. The setting advances and sometimes gets turned on its head. But it is still the same setting. As opposed to say Gamma World or many other RPGs where each iteration is a reboot. Players and DMs can and will get tired of that. (unless they hated the original iteration, (or one of the following iterations))

Example the 5e Sword Coast book just updates the region. You can play 5e without it. Though pretty sure the Adventurers League and probably some or all the modules makes use of it. Without 100% needing it.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1105416"You could always just keep playing the older edition if you want. Unless you want to run organized play in which case you are hosed. Fork out da monay bitches!"
"OMG NOOOOOOO!"

Gamers. LOL.

Fixed that for you.

Quote from: Omega;1105419Fixed that for you.

Organized Savage Worlds play? Yeah OK. Let's pretend that is a national thing.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1105404What percentage, in your estimation, of the populace of the 3rd Reich were more than mere tag-alongs?
Anyway, if THAT was problem, you'd only have to retcon out the noble and gallant part.

Who the fuck ever portrayed the CSA as noble or gallant?  Individual characters, sure, but even the game points out that it's a terrible place.