Unlike other Steampunk RPGs that kept the CSA alive, Deadlands had one of the better rationales. Though even with supernatural horrors attacking, the south would have been just as likely to offer freedom for military service as they were in the real timeline, which is not likely. The reckoners would have had to burn some serious mojo or leave a big enough pile of dead planters and politicians to convince them otherwise. I'm not as familiar with the dirty details of the setting to know if that happened. Some of the kumbaya stuff I've seen mentioned about  the Deadlands South, would require more mojo and an even larger pile of bodies to get over the racism of the past. And with no CSA, Deadlands can go wild, wild, weird west and have still have all sorts of bad guys to mow down by the wagonload.

Quote from: Koltar;1105093No, an updated "Space: 1889" should decrease or eliminate the racism and bigotry of the setting and make it more like the way people interact at Steampunk conventions.

Those new rules for taking awkward selfies and having sex with chunky chicks in corsets is totally gonna sell that new edition!

Castle Falkenstein is a much better choice for "Steampunk con RPG" as Space:1889 was built to appeal to the alt-history crowd who really want to play out the UK in its steampunk glory. Falkenstein is more accessible for the steampunk crowd who are more into costumes and the anime and the few Hollywood visions, and less about the alt-history aspect.

Spinachat,

 You don't KNOW "Steampunk" - I live it at conventions....where women (and sometimes men) are gorgeous, glamorous, brilliant and swashbuckling.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;1105253You don't KNOW "Steampunk" - I live it at conventions....where women (and sometimes men) are gorgeous, glamorous, brilliant and swashbuckling.

Are you saying chunky chicks in corsets can't be gorgeous & glamorous?! :eek: Fie on thee, Koltar!

Edit: Google confirms my view (slightly NSFW).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105222Castle Falkenstein is a much better choice for "Steampunk con RPG" as Space:1889 was built to appeal to the alt-history crowd who really want to play out the UK in its steampunk glory. Falkenstein is more accessible for the steampunk crowd who are more into costumes and the anime and the few Hollywood visions, and less about the alt-history aspect.

I totally agree. But Space: 1889 isn't really a Steampunk setting as the term is commonly used, and should be left to be what it is.

Quote from: jhkim;1104691Maybe this is just an issue with phrasing, but I think slavery was most certainly the central issue of the Civil War. Is that what you mean by it being the underlying problem? The North wasn't explicitly abolitionist until the Emancipation Proclamation, but the rebellion was clearly about concerns that the North would continue to dominate and restrict slavery until the system was untenable.

If memory serves, also this was at the point that the North had begun rapidly industrializing, and the South didn't believe they could compete without a slave based economy.

Quote from: Koltar;1105253You don't KNOW "Steampunk" - I live it at conventions....where women (and sometimes men) are gorgeous, glamorous, brilliant and swashbuckling.

Then you know all about the Steam-nookie-punk at cons. As for gorgeous & glamorous, perhaps you're using the Midwest definition which includes extra "cushion for the pushing". :eek:

I'm gonna go with my years of Steampunk & Dieselpunk LARPS. Damn fine cosplayers across the board. Steampunk & Deadlands has inspired some highly creative costuming over the years.

Hence, the innumerable selfies.

But Koltar, as a Steampunk fan, why do you think Space:1889 could be a good entry point for other fans versus other steampunk inspired RPGs, especially Falkenstein?

Personally, I'm surprised there hasn't been an OSR Steampunk. Or a OSR Steampunk Ravenloft, aka Jules Verne meets Masque of Red Death. I could see that doing well with the steampunk crowd.

Quote from: tenbones;1105104Because I've never accepted literalism in my religious views, but I understand the power of them. I know that most entertainment interactions with those ideas are FICTION by intent and they're intended for the edification and entertainment of their consumers. I don't identify with the entertainment personally. I identify with my beliefs - but those believes do not define me. The problem is Intersectionality is trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's codifying it's claims as reality in a literal sense like a religion, and demanding that its paradigm must define the collective minds that partake in it. Classic fundamentalism.

The Deadlands setting is representative of History as a fictional agent to be entertainment. Period. It's not a call to re-write history to justify the CSA, or imply anything other than to acknowledge that due to the conceits of the setting and its time period, that it's accounted for, for the purposes of the GAME.

If someone is offended by someone's ideas, or ideas presented in a product - you only have to 1) not consume it 2)spend some effort to see whether there is any value in engaging in it for *whatever* reason floats your boat. If one's beliefs are so sacrosanct that they can't stand up to their use as a work of fiction, context not withstanding, then that's says more about you than anything else. Assuming of course we agree people should be free to think whatever they want. If you disagree with that basic premise (and I'm not saying you are) - then that's pretty much the end of the disucssion, heh. But otherwise... we're have everything to talk about then!

Ehh? Portraying the CSA as successful, even in a game, is definitely fiction. I'm good with exploring aspects of that to understand the implications better. Deliberately marketing this while focusing specifically on the group of people that do want to re-write history is another thing entirely, and was a deciding factor on my decision not to buy Deadlands in the first place. Have to say that I find it interesting though that by all indications here from GMs who actually run Deadlands, that the game wasn't used as a vehicle by the southern apologists, to further any of their actual agendas, nonetheless that element is being removed by the game creator conveniently at a time when there is a general public protest by what basically amounts to non-gamers (the sjw).

My take on this presented as a metaphor, ...it's as if Patricia Pulling targeted Deadlands instead of D&D and was successful in getting the creator to remove the fictional history of the CSA, even though she, and the people that follow her are never ever going to buy a single copy of the game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1105048No... it's like saying you can't play Wehrmacht or SS Troops serving Nazi Germany in a game set in 1965.

..with the reason stated being that you can't expect a Jew to be able to handle the GM portraying a Nazi NPC in 1965. I don't get it.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1105289..with the reason stated being that you can't expect a Jew to be able to handle the GM portraying a Nazi NPC in 1965. I don't get it.

Well you know how no Jewish actor, producer, director or viewer would touch The Man in the High Castle? Yes, just like that.

Quote from: S'mon;1105294Well you know how no Jewish actor, producer, director or viewer would touch The Man in the High Castle? Yes, just like that.

Makes sense.

[video=youtube;lnah81kES_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnah81kES_s[/youtube]

Quote from: RPGPunditNo... it's like saying you can't play Wehrmacht or SS Troops serving Nazi Germany in a game set in 1965.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1105289..with the reason stated being that you can't expect a Jew to be able to handle the GM portraying a Nazi NPC in 1965. I don't get it.

There's a disconnect between these posts. RPGPundit refers to playing Wehrmacht, while Alexander is talking about Nazis NPCs. As far as I've seen, the key problem with the CSA isn't that the CSA still exists -- but that they have given up slavery and are played as PCs. In Post #134, Toric described a CSA PC from his Deadlands experience:

Quote from: Toric;1104802I distinctly remember someone playing something akin to the cultured southern gentleman.  I don't believe the character had strong feelings one way or another regarding the CSA government, he just played up the dignified southern man angle.  He had gone west seeking his fortune further from the ravages and influences of two countries at war.  There was no played up racist angle.  As I recall he looked down his nose at anyone not as cultured as he was but there was nothing offensive about him.

Within the parallel, what would a non-offensive, non-racist Nazi PC look like? I'm trying to picture someone playing a 1965 Nazi as a sophisticated German officer without strong feelings one way or the other about the Nazi government, and without playing up the racist angle.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1104593I'm not a Deadlands fan, but I am a Savage Worlds fan, so I saw this. The bit about "[t]he folks who accused of us being Southern apologists for the last twenty years would continue doing so" suggests, taking it at face value, that this isn't an 'appease the activists' move, but "this is something that isn't really essential to the setting as it has evolved, and has gotten in the way of a lot of people's enjoyment, so why not get rid of it?"

The problem is that people who are vocal about not liking the change are getting kicked out of Facebook groups and banned on RPG.NET.

A french player got banned for asking why Americans were still so sensitive about a 140 year old issue. He called the RPG.NET SJW Squad pussies.

Quote from: Sunsword;1105323The problem is that people who are vocal about not liking the change are getting kicked out of Facebook groups and banned on RPG.NET.

I do not see either of those things as being a problem. It's the equivalent of being told you are no longer allowed to swim in the sewer or play in a burning house.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1105326I do not see either of those things as being a problem. It's the equivalent of being told you are no longer allowed to swim in the sewer or play in a burning house.

Fair enough.