Quote from: S'mon;1104921So, er, Yaay for Social Justice?!

Well, as the French say, even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn.

The problem is, like here in Texas... there's a serious pig-problem. Not an acorn problem.

But whatever. I have my fence. The pigs can go around and destroy everyone elses property. Even though they're cute, smart and destructive. They're also tasty.

Quote from: Orphan81;1104916"This game I bought once or never played and just let sit on my shelf and collect dust is changing! Grr those SJW's they ruined something I didn't have much interest in to begin with, but I see all potential progressive changes as bad no matter what!"

Yeah, The arguments I'm seeing against the change basically boil down to this. Either people who never played Deadlands.. or people who bought the Corebook and maybe a supplement and haven't touched it in years. I've got tons of RPG books I've bought, that I either never played, or are just collecting dust on my shelf or Drive thru rpg library. I'm seeing a lot of looking for excuses to get angry against the SJW's from people who don't even have a dog in the race.

I got banned from RPG net years ago for not touting the party line, I'm certainly not an SJW. But the complaints I'm seeing here seem to boil down to the other side equivalent of Virtue Signaling.

I'm glad you found a way to feel superior to both "sides".

Quote from: Orphan81;1104916I got banned from RPG net years ago for not touting the party line, I'm certainly not an SJW. But the complaints I'm seeing here seem to boil down to the other side equivalent of Virtue Signaling.

Ha. That could be true, except for the fact that is being overlooked, and that's that I don't have a dog in this fight. preferring to run and play Aces & Eights instead of Deadlands. I don't own anything from Pinnacle, Shanes' sales or lack thereof will have zero impact on my future gaming. My observations and comments are presented here in that context.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1104922(Twain) used to write poisonous hateful letters to celebrities, business leaders, editors of his time, and to his creditors. His wife Olivia would sneak out to the mailbox, grab the letters before the postman could take them, and destroy the letters. She successfully kept this a secret, and didn't tell anyone while she was alive.

I like this woman already.  I certainly never thought of Twain as any kind of genteel; I actually have had something of a personal grudge against him ever since finding out that his work "The Mysterious Stranger" was what tipped my first serious girlfriend into the camp of atheism, which paved the way for other sufficient convictions that guaranteed she and I (a fairly serious albeit incompetent Roman Catholic) would never have been able to make a permanent go of it.

My life is boring enough that the worst damage I've ever done is generally by failing to keep my foot out of my mouth at a critical moment, and the worst damage ever done to me was by people who didn't care about the effect their words had. The sigged quotation is basically a reminder to myself to think as much as possible about whether what I want to say is worth saying before I say it.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1104911I don't buy the abolitionism happening without serious internal disruptions throughout the Confederacy, to the point of an even further breakup (which was a danger the Confederacy faced in real-world history), but if they somehow get past that, I actually can believe they'd still maintain the struggle for independence due to a resentment of Northern attempts to forcibly keep them in the Union.

They'd keep fighting the Union even after freeing their own slaves because as traitors they've already gone past the point of no return. It's hard to imagine them going back to the Union with the line "Sorry about the hundreds of thousands killed and wounded. How about we shake hands and let bygones be bygones?" Yes, it'd the starting of the Civil War an even more stupid move on the part of the CSA, but war aims often change from what they were at the beginning. The CSA couldn't know that the USA would go relatively easy on the South compared to their worst fears.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1104941My life is boring enough that the worst damage I've ever done is generally by failing to keep my foot out of my mouth at a critical moment, and the worst damage ever done to me was by people who didn't care about the effect their words had. The sigged quotation is basically a reminder to myself to think as much as possible about whether what I want to say is worth saying before I say it.

Heh, when confronted by a certain kind of fool, my response has changed to asking them, seemingly out of the blue, "Have you read Mark Twain recently?"  "No?"  "You probably should."  Then leave it at that. It's applicable to more than just your sigged quote, too.

Old Skool is best skool!

Honestly though, I get their ret-con point. It was something that caught me in the originals, especially the USA v. CSA logistics differential and the power shift from ghost rock. Just more, and interconnected, rail lines alone would have powered the USA to rapid victory with ghost rock. So this is just some overdue house cleaning in my view, albeit for different reasons.

But I am not interested in this "Which alt history is permissible?" paradigm fight for Let's Pretend! If you have people who cannot handle your Let's Pretend! let them use their safeword of "No thank you, " and let them politely walk away. If they spazz out with a 'psychological emergency' then you use your safeword of "No thank you, " and usher them away from your table, calling emergency medical services as necessary from their 'potential threat to themselves and others' breakdown. Very simple.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1104932I'm glad you found a way to feel superior to both "sides".

Your damn straight I did. I've liked plenty of your posts before this Ratman, but here's where I have to firmly disagree with you, particularly with the personal attacks you made against Shane Hensley.

Quote from: Orphan81;1104988Your damn straight I did. I've liked plenty of your posts before this Ratman, but here's where I have to firmly disagree with you, particularly with the personal attacks you made against Shane Hensley.

Fair enough.

I've been a Deadlands GM for both Classic and Reloaded. I've paid my money and my dues to call out Shane the Wimp.

The concept of the CSA (losing or winning or dragging on) isn't a bad idea and each option opens certain storylines to explore. Revamping the setting to tell new stories isn't always a bad idea. We've seen that plenty with many game lines and sometimes the revamp is a good idea, but mostly the revamps just crap out and alienate fans as they are often done poorly. But this CSA issue isn't a RPG revamp for in-game reasons and its so laughably obvious.  

And that's the shame.

Quote from: wmarshal;1104766Already I'm seeing folks at TBP demanding genuflection and apologies from Shane regarding how he even deigned to think how the CSA could survive the Civil War.

And so it begins!

Popcorn for everybody!!!

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1104789I just wanted to play my games and read my comics/books.

Spoken like a true Nazi!!!

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1104796Why are we buying Deadlands again?

It's D&D in the Old West. You run around a Hollywood version of the Old West with steampunk, I mean, ghost rock, and shoot monsters and you got a wizard and a cleric in the party too.

It's quite fun with the right group. Neither the Classic nor Savage Worlds are a good system/setting fit, but like Rifts, the setting concept is flavorful enough for most players to overlook the system issues and just get on with "Silverado with Monsters"

The Alt-History elements were always wonky, and most Deadlands GMs I knew ditched the Alt-bits for just running Hollywood Westerns. Very few games I played ever took place east of Nebraska so the USA/CSA civil war was entirely background.

Quote from: tenbones;1104927The problem is, like here in Texas... there's a serious pig-problem.

How is that possible with so many rib joints?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105008I've been a Deadlands GM for both Classic and Reloaded. I've paid my money and my dues to call out Shane the Wimp.

The concept of the CSA (losing or winning or dragging on) isn't a bad idea and each option opens certain storylines to explore. Revamping the setting to tell new stories isn't always a bad idea. We've seen that plenty with many game lines and sometimes the revamp is a good idea, but mostly the revamps just crap out and alienate fans as they are often done poorly. But this CSA issue isn't a RPG revamp for in-game reasons and its so laughably obvious.  

And that's the shame.

Exactly, and sadly only he will pay the price.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105008And so it begins!

Popcorn for everybody!!!

Called it!

QuoteGeekyBugle: I just wanted to play my games and read my comics/books.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105008Spoken like a true Nazi!!!

All hail Moctezuma! Kukulcan Vult!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105008How is that possible with so many rib joints?

Maybe they need some new recipes as to how to cook pork?

I've given this some thought. I have Deadlands Reloaded, Hell on Earth (R) and Lost Colony.

I don't need any more products to make my own Wierd West sandbox.

So I don't really care what Hensley does or why he does it. I wasn't buying any more books anyway.

Quote from: S'mon;1104921On a side note, I think a Wild West setting works best when it accords most closely to historical reality. Maybe history + magic.

I have the same preference. I'd thought Deadlands was closer to that when I first signed on to play. The CSA stuff was just the first part of what put me off... and what finally sent me out the door had more to do with the GM's wife infusing his game with her fan-fiction.
Something like Aces High (BRP) is more my speed... and I can borrow from 2nd hand Deadlands books I picked up if I want ideas for a bit more steampunk.

Quote from: jhkim;1104866On this site, I see a lot of people who seem to think that RPG publications are impactful

It is hilarious you know because all the things you listed. Someone apparently thought RPGs were impactful enough to want to co-opt them and use them as a platform for their agenda.
(Though far as I know Berlin: Wicked City is actually fairly accurate of the time and location it is set in and posters here only spoke up because it initially looked like yet another agenda insert. Possibly same with Essentials.)