Quote from: Haffrung;1102311I doubt it. The format doesn't lend itself to amateur revamps, and I have a tough time seeing independent publishers supporting 4E material.

  And the material released under the OGL doesn't lend itself to easy cloning of 4E, to boot.

QuoteHowever, I expect once the resentment of 4E fades to memory, the game will develop a cult following among gamers who weren't participants in the Edition Wars. Books/boxes will go for a mint on the secondary market - the Essentials DM's Kit and Monster Vault are already expensive.

  I agree with the former, but I'm not so sure about the latter, given that DTRPG is providing good PoD support for 4E. You're right about the boxes, though.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1102269I think a lot of 4e peeps migrated to 13th Age.

13th Age really does nicely scratch the 4e itch.

Quote from: Omega;1102235They also tried to organize to sabotage the playtest by filling out the surveys with bad or hatefull advice. The 4e fanatics anics actually convinced WOTC to drop support even faster. According to others who were there they also fucked up the WOTC forums, apparently well before 5e was even in the works.

Over ob BGG there are still now and then some holdouts who extoll that 4e is the most balanced and perfect RPG everrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

4e was a clusterfuck of fuck ups at nearly every step and cause Habro to leash in and then tighten said leash on WOTC.

That's hilarious.  What a bunch of entitled little snowflake shits.

Quote from: Omega;1102235They also tried to organize to sabotage the playtest by filling out the surveys with bad or hatefull advice.

Worth remembering though is that according to some of the anti-4E people "bad and hateful advice" = "please include elements of 4E that its players actually liked, such as the warlord class. Also maybe don't mock your current player base with comments from your devs about warlords 'shouting hands back on' when the system in question didn't even have rules for dismemberment and pushed non-physical hit points harder than any edition ever had."

There was a lot of hate on both sides of the Edition Wars. Don't pretend it all came from the 4E side.

Quote from: Doom;1102314All that said, it's clear some folks are still playing 4e, and it is a fun system at level 4 or lower if you stick to only the first 10 or so books, I give it that.

Yeah, I've definitely enjoyed 4e levels 1-4 best. Should bear that in mind next time I run it, and just plan around a 1-4 campaign.

Ah, good old Mike "Shout Hands Back On" Mearls.

Rest In Peace Warlord.

Quote from: Chris24601;1102342There was a lot of hate on both sides of the Edition Wars. Don't pretend it all came from the 4E side.

Before 5E was even announced, I'd had it with many of the 3E and 4E fans on such topics.  It was as if the more nasty AD&D, Hero System, and GURPs arguments had gotten moved to a much bigger venue and all the worst people from every side were handed the microphones at the same time.  I especially got tired of all the people with a financial stake in the outcomes pretending they were altruistic.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1102353It was as if the more nasty AD&D, Hero System, and GURPs arguments had gotten moved to a much bigger venue and all the worst people from every side were handed the microphones at the same time.

GURPS rools, HERO drools! :cool:

Quote from: CRKrueger;1102269I think a lot of 4e peeps migrated to 13th Age.

What I heard as well but have never seen 13th Age to tell if that would be viable?

Quote from: CRKrueger;1102269I think a lot of 4e peeps migrated to 13th Age.

Doesnt 13th Age have even less players then 4e?

Quote from: Chris24601;1102342Worth remembering though is that according to some of the anti-4E people "bad and hateful advice" = "please include elements of 4E that its players actually liked, such as the warlord class. Also maybe don't mock your current player base with comments from your devs about warlords 'shouting hands back on' when the system in question didn't even have rules for dismemberment and pushed non-physical hit points harder than any edition ever had."

There was a lot of hate on both sides of the Edition Wars. Don't pretend it all came from the 4E side.

Of course not. But somehow the 4e fanatics were hellbent on outdoing everyone else for their hate of every other edition. And WOTC egged them on to it with those damn advertisements.

The regular 4e fans were not like that and no one had a problem with them. Same for the 4e D&D Gamma World version. Alot of folk who disliked 4e looked at it and saw in GW that 4e could do classic D&D if just given the chance. Apparently Essentials did this as well but came too late?

Personally I look at core 4e and it is not D&D. It is just too removed with its MMO speak and overhaul of the system. I dont dislike it, other than the layout and MMO terms flying around, ugh! But it is just not my thing as is. One of these days I'll get ahold of a copy of Essentials and see what they did with it.

But my first exposure to 4e was via Gamma World and that feels more D&D-ish to me. Even with the CCG and board game elements glued on. So finally seeing 4e itself was quite a perplexing thing. But still GW left me in a more open minded frame of mind.

It's still being played in some RPG/Tabletop clubs in my area, but not a lot.
13th Age seems more popular for sure though.

It's definitely still alive, and gets plenty of posts at EnWorld from people playing it still.

I'd say some of the later adventures are only now being discovered by some. And that makes sense, as the later adventures were quite good and yet were assumed to be bad because so many earlier adventures were lacking. For example, Madness at Gardmore Abbey is excellent...but few at the time were aware of it as that was near the very end of 4e./

Quote from: Shasarak;1102391Doesnt 13th Age have even less players then 4e?

Yeah from the data I've seen (and you posted some of that) 4e still have more players than M&M, GURPS, 13th Age, Traveller, etc..

Don't know if this Orr Report is a good indicator of popularity. But if it is, then D&D4 is in a bad spot right now. I couldn't even find it on the list:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.roll20.net/post/186546450860/the-orr-group-industry-report-q2-2019-back-and/amp