Quote from: Spinachcat;1100666As headbangers, we are incredibly spoiled right now with a new Golden Age of Metal.

Yeah, it's almost like an 'Old School Renaissance', to coin a phrase. The 1990s were a very dark time for Metal, in more ways than one - for a while it seemed like the baleful influence of Grunge had killed Tru Metal in the US. Bit like how Vampire nearly killed D&D. In Britain self-consciousness and ironic parody (The Darkness) seemed to put the nail in the coffin, but luckily the Swedes, Finns, Germans etc soon came to the rescue.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1100469Realistic and immersive virtual reality will be a thing in 20 years. That's how most people will "play D&D."

More likely, millions of people will watch a small group of D-grade actors "playing" pre-scripted adventures in those digital realities, while making and decorating avatars for the game that they will never themselves play (but share the avatar on social media).

Meanwhile, the OSR will still be around. Or at least, it will if I'm still alive.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1101592More likely, millions of people will watch a small group of D-grade actors "playing" pre-scripted adventures in those digital realities, while making and decorating avatars for the game that they will never themselves play (but share the avatar on social media).

Meanwhile, the OSR will still be around. Or at least, it will if I'm still alive.

I'm pretty sure there will still be tabletop RPGs in places like London. They (well, D&D) seem vastly more popular now than 15-20 years ago. Like the huge renaissance in boardgaming, it's part of a hunger for real-life connection. Men have always connected through hobbies & sports, but now many women are doing the same.

There will always be a few of us old fuddy duddies reading old dusty RPG books, rolling dice, and telling stories.

Quote from: S'mon;1101602Like the huge renaissance in boardgaming, it's part of a hunger for real-life connection. Men have always connected through hobbies & sports, but now many women are doing the same.

I wonder sometimes how much of this hunger isn't an outgrowth of the increasing digitization of our lives.

Quote from: Brendan;1101604I wonder sometimes how much of this hunger isn't an outgrowth of the increasing digitization of our lives.

Yes.

It's actually easier for me to get players at my AD&D1e games than it used to be. As my good gamer friend said, "People don't have friends these days." People spend time on social media in search of connection, and the time they spend on social media deprives them of connections. So if you have an open game table, people will come.

Quote from: Razor 007;1100345How will peoples' opinions change, in hindsight?

20 years from now, many of the grognards will no longer be with us.

I can tell you what I'm already noticing. Hindsight is definitely not 20/20.

When you "have all the information"--like I can easily find bootleg copies of 1E and 2E then go and compare and contrast. Back in the day when those editions were live, I'd say it's pretty rare for anyone to own EVERYTHING. So the perceptions of those differences have changed.

For the longest time, a lot of people thought 2E invented THAC0. I think this one has been pretty well debunked. But it does illustrate the point. You can easily make that mistake if you download all the texts and just not notice that weird sideways printed Appendix of the DMG which has "To Hit AC 0." There's zero chance of making that same mistake when you actually used THAC0 before 2E came out.

But I see other things pop up. Like "You're not playing 1E BtB if you generate stats using 3d6." Again, an easy mistake to make when you compare and contrast the texts. 3d6 is explicitly listed among the methods in 2E. It's not listed as a method in 1E. But of course 1E was "advanced" from regular D&D. The 3d6 method was the well known method at the time. So when I read the methods in the DMG, I notice that the methods in 1E are specifically called "alternatives." Alternatives to what? To what we've been doing all along. If you've got it in your head that 3d6 don't exist in 1E, "alternatives" is easily interpreted as "Well, they're alternatives to one another." It's also easy to misread that section in the PHB where it says it's difficult for a character survive without at least two scores of 15+ as instructions to use a more generous dicing method to ensure starting characters have that. Whereas I read it and say, "Okay, so when this character without those high scores dies, I shouldn't feel bad. I should feel really accomplishes if the character survives long-term. And if I do happen to roll at least two high stats, that character's probably going to be around a long time so I better be real careful when I pick a name." Actually, oddly, in the 90's edition wars, if you used the 3d6 in order method, you were on the 1E side. Because that was hardcore and 2E of course was for sissies. This despite the method being explicitly included in 2E but not 1E.

Another reality of playing back then is, you couldn't just hop online to amazon or drivethru RPG and order whatever books you wanted. You had to go to the LGS, and you may have been limited by what they had in stock. Me personally, I was also a kid then. I had no job. No steady source of income. No car to get to the local game store. I had to take whatever I could get. My grandmother picked up books for me whenever she found them at a thrift shop or a yard sale or flea market. And I'm guessing most people had similar experiences, where you just didn't play any one pure edition. It just wasn't practical with the resources we had then. Ideas from OD&D, BECMI, 1E, and 2E would thus mingle in ways people trying to sort it out in hindsight.

20 years from now, 1E will still be among the rotation of RPGs I run. And no matter how closely I stick to the text, and no matter how much the campaign embodies the feel of back in the day, I'm certain it will be drastically different and alien from the expectations of anyone 20 years from now who's fully read and absorbed the game.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1100347Karate Kid
Conan the Barbarian
Fame
Clash of the Titans
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Rollerball
Gone With The Wind
Total Recall

When you think of these, do you think of the original or the remake? And we could think of many others where most people never even heard of the remake...

D&D is the same.

True Grit
Casino Royale
The Departed
No Way Out
The Fly
3:10 to Yuma
Little Shop of Horrors
Scarface

When I think of these, I think of the remake.

Also, some you listed HAVE no remake. There is no remake of Gone With the Wind for example.

Quote from: Lunamancer;1101967I can tell you what I'm already noticing. Hindsight is definitely not 20/20.

When you "have all the information"--like I can easily find bootleg copies of 1E and 2E then go and compare and contrast. Back in the day when those editions were live, I'd say it's pretty rare for anyone to own EVERYTHING. So the perceptions of those differences have changed.

For the longest time, a lot of people thought 2E invented THAC0. I think this one has been pretty well debunked. But it does illustrate the point. You can easily make that mistake if you download all the texts and just not notice that weird sideways printed Appendix of the DMG which has "To Hit AC 0." There's zero chance of making that same mistake when you actually used THAC0 before 2E came out.

But I see other things pop up. Like "You're not playing 1E BtB if you generate stats using 3d6." Again, an easy mistake to make when you compare and contrast the texts. 3d6 is explicitly listed among the methods in 2E. It's not listed as a method in 1E. But of course 1E was "advanced" from regular D&D. The 3d6 method was the well known method at the time. So when I read the methods in the DMG, I notice that the methods in 1E are specifically called "alternatives." Alternatives to what? To what we've been doing all along. If you've got it in your head that 3d6 don't exist in 1E, "alternatives" is easily interpreted as "Well, they're alternatives to one another." It's also easy to misread that section in the PHB where it says it's difficult for a character survive without at least two scores of 15+ as instructions to use a more generous dicing method to ensure starting characters have that. Whereas I read it and say, "Okay, so when this character without those high scores dies, I shouldn't feel bad. I should feel really accomplishes if the character survives long-term. And if I do happen to roll at least two high stats, that character's probably going to be around a long time so I better be real careful when I pick a name." Actually, oddly, in the 90's edition wars, if you used the 3d6 in order method, you were on the 1E side. Because that was hardcore and 2E of course was for sissies. This despite the method being explicitly included in 2E but not 1E.

Another reality of playing back then is, you couldn't just hop online to amazon or drivethru RPG and order whatever books you wanted. You had to go to the LGS, and you may have been limited by what they had in stock. Me personally, I was also a kid then. I had no job. No steady source of income. No car to get to the local game store. I had to take whatever I could get. My grandmother picked up books for me whenever she found them at a thrift shop or a yard sale or flea market. And I'm guessing most people had similar experiences, where you just didn't play any one pure edition. It just wasn't practical with the resources we had then. Ideas from OD&D, BECMI, 1E, and 2E would thus mingle in ways people trying to sort it out in hindsight.

20 years from now, 1E will still be among the rotation of RPGs I run. And no matter how closely I stick to the text, and no matter how much the campaign embodies the feel of back in the day, I'm certain it will be drastically different and alien from the expectations of anyone 20 years from now who's fully read and absorbed the game.

20 years from now, I bet the tables running A D & D 1E games will be in the low hundreds, "worldwide"; if that many.  Not knocking it, but a lot of the Grognards will be gone; and a lot of the OSR fans will likely be fawning over remakes of remakes, which continue to drift farther away from A D & D 1E, etc.

Quote from: Razor 007;110198720 years from now, I bet the tables running A D & D 1E games will be in the low hundreds, "worldwide"; if that many.  Not knocking it, but a lot of the Grognards will be gone; and a lot of the OSR fans will likely be fawning over remakes of remakes, which continue to drift farther away from A D & D 1E, etc.

I don't like the remakes that much. But I didn't play the original and am rather young.

The Black Hack 2e is nothing like the older games, but is one of my favorite books. DCCRPG is OSR adjacent at best and looks like a blast. Stars Without Number Revised Edition is one of my favorites of the genre.

When I see a remake or retroclone, I'm wondering why I wouldn't just play the original. The reimagined games are what get me excited. OSR much more about what isn't in the rules, so when I see something stupid like descending AC or to-hit tables, I'm like "why would anyone want this clunk aside from pure nostalgia?"

Quote from: Rhedyn;1101993so when I see something stupid like descending AC or to-hit tables, I'm like "why would anyone want this clunk aside from pure nostalgia?"

Because a multiplication table is faster than any multiplication equation.  Same for to-hit tables being faster than any to-hit equation; adding or otherwise.  It's a single glance at something staring at me on the back of my DM screen.  It may have made more sense when everyone carried peechees.

With the OSR; we all want a game that has everything we want, and nothing we don't.  And since that doesn't exist, we keep on looking at new games...

Quote from: Brendan;1101604I wonder sometimes how much of this hunger isn't an outgrowth of the increasing digitization of our lives.

Digitisation & social media, removal from close kin, lack of marriage and especially lack of children are all factors. Though one of my keenest players has a Thai bride & a bunch of kids.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1101606Yes.

It's actually easier for me to get players at my AD&D1e games than it used to be. As my good gamer friend said, "People don't have friends these days." People spend time on social media in search of connection, and the time they spend on social media deprives them of connections. So if you have an open game table, people will come.

I certainly had no problem getting players for my Classic D&D 2015-17 campaign, and most were in their early 20s. Funnily enough I have mostly older players in my current 5e D&D campaigns, it has brought a lot of ex-players back to the hobby.

Let's not forget that the older generation of boardgamers have played computer games a lot when they were younger and having explored that, some of them simply have moved on to explore different types of games. I mean CP2077 looks great but it gameplay-wise it looks really old.