How will peoples' opinions change, in hindsight?

20 years from now, many of the grognards will no longer be with us.

Karate Kid
Conan the Barbarian
Fame
Clash of the Titans
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Rollerball
Gone With The Wind
Total Recall

When you think of these, do you think of the original or the remake? And we could think of many others where most people never even heard of the remake...

D&D is the same.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1100347Karate Kid
Conan the Barbarian
Fame
Clash of the Titans
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Rollerball
Gone With The Wind
Total Recall

When you think of these, do you think of the original or the remake? And we could think of many others where most people never even heard of the remake...

D&D is the same.

Well...yes. You're correct. In my case. But, that's because of how old I am. What would a younger person, who only knows of the remakes, say about the same list?

People are most familiar with their first exposure. Anything before then is part of the history leading up to that conceptually seminal work and anything after then is a remake. I think the best example of this argument is The Legend of Zelda. The best Legend of Zelda video game is the one you played first when you were a kid. All others are part of that game's history, or its sequels. Independent merit is not a factor, because there can be no objectivity.

The kids now growing up with D&D 5e will think of it as Dungeons & Dragons. All other editions will be tangential, even if individually a person comes to appreciate or prefer an earlier edition, the semiotic representation of D&D will remain 5e.

//Panjumanju

The question is based on some childishly optimistic assumptions. There's a lot of terrible shit that can potentially happen in the next twenty years. Remembering D&D might not be such a priority.

What do you mean by "these old edition?" AD&D and earlier?

I expect they'll be cultural artifacts dug up by the sorts of people who enjoy digging up old stuff. Like people who are into Tarzan pulps, vintage jazz on vinyl, and Prince Valiant comics.

Quote from: Panjumanju;1100374Well...yes. You're correct. In my case. But, that's because of how old I am. What would a younger person, who only knows of the remakes, say about the same list?

My own experience suggests that younger people are likely more familiar with the originals*, which are easier to access than ever before, after all. Remakes tend to vanish without a trace shortly after release unless they do something unusually creative. Also, I would call Charlie and the Chocolate Factory a new adaptation rather than a remake (sort of like the recent IT movie(s)).

*Although I might give you the new Planet of the Apes, which turned into a viable franchise for a few years.

Don't know but the pieces are there for people to keep the classic editions going for as long as there is interest. A far better situation compare to material that can only sit on a shelf and be shared with the permission of the right holder.

So the odds are good that one or more of the classic editions will still not just be remembered but still played.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1100347Karate Kid
Conan the Barbarian
Fame
Clash of the Titans
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Rollerball
Gone With The Wind
Total Recall

When you think of these, do you think of the original or the remake? And we could think of many others where most people never even heard of the remake...

D&D is the same.

Do you remember the original Westworld or the new one?

There, you have your answer.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1100347Karate Kid
Conan the Barbarian
Fame
Clash of the Titans
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Rollerball
Gone With The Wind
Total Recall

When you think of these, do you think of the original or the remake? And we could think of many others where most people never even heard of the remake...

D&D is the same.

Many of these are from the 1980s, which is more within living memory. Films from the 1960s and earlier -- like Planet of the Apes, Ocean's Eleven, The Thing, and Invasion of the Body Snatchers -- are more likely to be remembered for their remakes if they are remembered at all.

There's also a huge difference between a successful and unsuccessful remake. No one remembers the original Wizard of Oz movie, or the original Maltese Falcon movie. They remember Judy Garland and Humphrey Bogart.

With D&D, I'd argue that the 1st (AD&D), 3rd, and 5th editions were all quite successful. The 1st edition was largely a fad, though. It was hugely popular for a few years, and then rapidly faded into obscurity for most people. 3rd was less successful than 1st, but still made a splash. However, it seems to me that 5th edition is the most success D&D has ever seen. This isn't to say that 1st edition won't be remembered, but I think it won't be the defining image people have of D&D in twenty years.

Re: remakes, I think a lot depends on how much cultural real estate is taken up by the original. Ocean's Elevenand The Italian Job were successful in their day, but largely forgotten by the time the remakes came out, which I think is part of why they succeeded. John Carpenter's Halloween, on the other hand, was still a famous horror movie that was frequently watched when Rob Zombie tried his hand at it. Which is one reason that Zombie's version hasn't displaced the original in anyone's mind.

Quote from: Cave Bear;1100379The question is based on some childishly optimistic assumptions. There's a lot of terrible shit that can potentially happen in the next twenty years. Remembering D&D might not be such a priority.

What a strange response?  Reminiscent of a danger hair.....

Quote from: Haffrung;1100381What do you mean by "these old edition?" AD&D and earlier?

I expect they'll be cultural artifacts dug up by the sorts of people who enjoy digging up old stuff. Like people who are into Tarzan pulps, vintage jazz on vinyl, and Prince Valiant comics.

The full D & D canon we now know; will be considered old editions, 20 years from now.  Heck, I will be an old edition....

Quote from: Cave Bear;1100379The question is based on some childishly optimistic assumptions. There's a lot of terrible shit that can potentially happen in the next twenty years. Remembering D&D might not be such a priority.

  Well, that raises some interesting questions ...

1) Will D&D 6E or Pathfinder 3E be the first game to go overtly Satanic and pledge itself to the Antichrist?
2) What versions of D&D will be played in the New Jerusalem?

I think comparing D&D to movies is a bit flawed.  Movie's are individual stories and can be seen in their entirety, are a whole unit.  Games are a different animal--the RPG is a hybrid of text prose and collections of logical and mathematical rules.  It is constantly changing over time, and it's not the same experience as watching a movie vs watching a remake of a movie.

I think D&D itself as long as it's published will continue to slowly change.  The most popular form of the game will be the current version, unless they screw things up and make a radical change the audience doesn't want.  The company can keep older rulesets in print but just because the material is available doesn't mean it will be popular.

Quote from: Cave Bear;1100379The question is based on some childishly optimistic assumptions. There's a lot of terrible shit that can potentially happen in the next twenty years. Remembering D&D might not be such a priority.

While others went "whoa" to this statement, I sort of agree with the sentiment.  I don't think things will go that bad in 20 years, but I do see a lot of people worried about if their favorite form of entertainment will survive when, in the grand scheme of things, that is trivial crap compared to what may happen.  People worry if D&D will still be played 100 years from now, and in the meantime, whole elements of our society or culture could be radically different by then!  War, famine, disease, collapse of the government, collapse of an economy, change in social priorities so we don't have a lot of time for games, change in perspective, change it technology so traditional tabletop RPGs are supplanted by other things, etc.  I don't mean to sound grim, etc., but considering how much society can change in a sort time, I wonder why people obsess over the trivial.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1100406Well, that raises some interesting questions ...

1) Will D&D 6E or Pathfinder 3E be the first game to go overtly Satanic and pledge itself to the Antichrist?
2) What versions of D&D will be played in the New Jerusalem?

Actually, the answer to the first question is Shadow of the Demon Lord.