Quote from: GeekyBugle;1099971Haven't got a single book from them. You recommend it? I was talking about the original CP2013/2020

I run a lot of Edge. I'm running an Old Republic Bounty Hunter campaign now, in fact. The Obligation system in Edge is silly. Unnecessary in fact. They tried to cook it into the system as a currency and did a poor job of it.

They clean it up more in Genesys (can't speak for their Cyberpunk setting rules - just their core ones) where they use Motivations to describe in-game mechanics to be engaged with during roleplaying where you'll accrue "obligation" (or anything else) as a normal function of roleplay.

Personally I like FFG Star Wars. I'm slowly incorporating Genesys mechanics to replace the stuff I don't like. They're 99% similar. I wouldn't run CP2020 using these rules though.

Quote from: tenbones;1100294I run a lot of Edge. I'm running an Old Republic Bounty Hunter campaign now, in fact. The Obligation system in Edge is silly. Unnecessary in fact. They tried to cook it into the system as a currency and did a poor job of it.

They clean it up more in Genesys (can't speak for their Cyberpunk setting rules - just their core ones) where they use Motivations to describe in-game mechanics to be engaged with during roleplaying where you'll accrue "obligation" (or anything else) as a normal function of roleplay.

Personally I like FFG Star Wars. I'm slowly incorporating Genesys mechanics to replace the stuff I don't like. They're 99% similar. I wouldn't run CP2020 using these rules though.

OTOH, I'd mix CP2020 and Mekton Z to run Star Wars.

Quote from: RandyB;1100298OTOH, I'd mix CP2020 and Mekton Z to run Star Wars.

HERESY!

The best Star Wars game was and is WEG Star Wars.

Quote from: tenbones;1100294I run a lot of Edge. I'm running an Old Republic Bounty Hunter campaign now, in fact. The Obligation system in Edge is silly. Unnecessary in fact. They tried to cook it into the system as a currency and did a poor job of it.

They clean it up more in Genesys (can't speak for their Cyberpunk setting rules - just their core ones) where they use Motivations to describe in-game mechanics to be engaged with during roleplaying where you'll accrue "obligation" (or anything else) as a normal function of roleplay.

Personally I like FFG Star Wars. I'm slowly incorporating Genesys mechanics to replace the stuff I don't like. They're 99% similar. I wouldn't run CP2020 using these rules though.

"Obligation" as being in someones debt (not of money) like a honor debt and such? I seem to remember reading (never played it or GMd it) a game set in Japan, I wanna say it was medieval Japan? That had something like I'm saying. You had face, honor and one other "currency" you could gain or lose, and getting indebted to people and not repaying them was one of the ways to lose face and honor. Face when it was made public you did something dishonorable (kinda like fame in other games), and I don't remember how honor and the other one were different from face right now.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100301HERESY!

The best Star Wars game was and is WEG Star Wars.

How well would WEG Star Wars support a Jedi game set in the Old Republic Era?

Quote from: RandyB;1100309How well would WEG Star Wars support a Jedi game set in the Old Republic Era?

Just great, and if you need help then hunt down this: Galaxy Guide to the Old Republic 400 pages of history and stats to play in the backgrounds defined by the video games : Knights of the Old Republic (1 & 2) and Star Wars the Old Republic

Edited to add I own a fuckton of fan made PDFs if you are interested drop me a PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100312Just great, and if you need help then hunt down this: Galaxy Guide to the Old Republic 400 pages of history and stats to play in the backgrounds defined by the video games : Knights of the Old Republic (1 & 2) and Star Wars the Old Republic

Edited to add I own a fuckton of fan made PDFs if you are interested drop me a PM

PM sent.

Taking the starting situation of SWTOR and running a tabletop campaign in an alt.SWTOR of my own devising remains one of my gaming dreams.

And I'm still a heretic.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100302I seem to remember reading (never played it or GMd it) a game set in Japan, I wanna say it was medieval Japan? That had something like I'm saying. You had face, honor and one other "currency" you could gain or lose, and getting indebted to people and not repaying them was one of the ways to lose face and honor. Face when it was made public you did something dishonorable (kinda like fame in other games), and I don't remember how honor and the other one were different from face right now.

It's not the game you remember, but the old game Bushido has a whole page of rules for favors. Not only could you ask people for favors, but your underlings would often ask you and you'd have to weigh the risk/reward for doing what they asked of you to do. That's something you don't often see.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1100339It's not the game you remember, but the old game Bushido has a whole page of rules for favors. Not only could you ask people for favors, but your underlings would often ask you and you'd have to weigh the risk/reward for doing what they asked of you to do. That's something you don't often see.

Nice, one more to my to buy list. That thing keeps getting bigger and bigger

Seriously though, yes not that many games have those rules.

Just got back from China and trying to balance the gift scale is a pain if you didn't grow up there.
Was wondering if there was a codified system that takes such things in account.

I know Hospitality customs are across societies as even Medieval Europe had how long you could expect to guest with someone and gifts given to compensate for the burden of living off of them.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100302"Obligation" as being in someones debt (not of money) like a honor debt and such? I seem to remember reading (never played it or GMd it) a game set in Japan, I wanna say it was medieval Japan? That had something like I'm saying. You had face, honor and one other "currency" you could gain or lose, and getting indebted to people and not repaying them was one of the ways to lose face and honor. Face when it was made public you did something dishonorable (kinda like fame in other games), and I don't remember how honor and the other one were different from face right now.

I'm PRETTY sure that's Bushido you're thinking of. I've never played it either (and shame on me - I've heard it' amazing.)

Obligations in Edge can mean a LOT of different things. First is the number and the type. The number is the currency of the Obligation. At the start of each game session the GM rolls the percentile to determine if your Obligation is going to be a "thing" from the outset of the session. If it is - then your character starts with "Strain" - (which is like Mental HP - which you can accrue from anything stressful in the game). Worse - it means that some point in that session your Obligation WILL come into play. Your Obligation score can go up/down based on things that occur in the game.

What those Obligations ARE - the Type... depends. You can have a bunch of Obligation. Or one big one. Examples:

Addiction - your Obligation to some physical or mental addiction is a THING. As in anytime you come into an opportunity to indulge that addiction you get drilled for penalties.

Betrayal - You're the object of some great betrayal OR you are the betrayer. The magnitude is dependent on your Obligation score. The target might seek answers, revenge or whatever.

Blackmail - You're being JACKED. They have evidence on you. And if it gets out... it's going to get ugly. They will make demands of you commensurate to the Obligation.

Bounty - There's a Bounty on you. It might be legal, illegal, when this Obligation comes up - expect the worst.

Criminal - you're a criminal. When it comes up the long arm of the Law is on you. You can remove this Obligation by paying up lawyers, fees, making amends, burying evidence etc.

Debt - You owe someone money. They're going to try to collect. It could be a Corporation. Crime Boss, whomever.

Dutybound - You have a sense of duty you feel compelled to fulfill. Could be contractual, service, following some Code. It's legally ritualistic binding you to a cause or organization.

Family - You got Family stuff to deal with. Siblings, parents, family business, legacy etc.

Favor - You owe someone favors. Think Prestation in Vampire. They're gonna milk you for it.

Oath - You have some kind of Oath that dictates all your thoughts and actions that shape your view of the world. Jedi Code is an example. It's serious. And when it comes up - it's taken seriously. There may never be an obtainable goal in sight.

Obsession - You're obsessed with something that interferes with your life. Could be anything. But you're INTO IT. To the point that people not into it - look at you like a fucking weirdo.

Responsibility - Pick a thing - you're responsible for that thing. You feel accountable for it - could be a person, place, thing, concept.

That's the basic list.

Very interesting stuff!

It's a strong concept. I think mechanically it can be handled cleaner. While it's pretty simple to use, the *problem* with it is unless the GM stays on top of it, it can allow players that just want to handwave a lot of interaction that matters into a simple resource transaction, which is good/bad depending on how you like to run things.

Case in point...

PC get hurt *really* bad in the game and needs to be patched up. Time is of the essence, money is short (i.e. nearly non-existant). Options are - run a job while hurt to make quick money with the penalties of being injured, or go to a local crime-boss you work for, to get that "quick" healing only their resources can deliver quickly.

In the latter case *all* of this could be roleplayed (and should be) - then you could assigned Obligation points to the help the PC out. The "issue" becomes the inevitable PC/GM negotiation on how much Obligation is accrued. Secondly, I've seen some players try to meta-game the Obligation system and do things "Screw it - just give me some Obligation and we'll handwave the details." (this never happens at my table, but I've seen it happen at others.)

The GM knows more than the Player in terms of what the impact of such help means, so my point is "does it matter that the Player even knows?".

There is the rub. I've felt for some time Obligation is a *good* system for GM's to use behind the screen. This keeps negotiating down to a minimum and the effects of Obligation are still in play purely through what transpires in the game.

If Empire Strikes Back were a campaign - Han Solo had a run in with a Bounty Hunter in Ord Mantell... The Player didn't need to know the GM rolled Han's Debt Obligation to Jabba. In the same token, what Han thinks he owes Jabba might not be in sync with what Jabba feels Han owes him.

So I think the "system" works better behind the scenes than overtly in the open. THAT SAID... their Genesys "generic" ruleset tosses this out for a more loosey-goosey almost "Aspects" like approach where a Player creates several "Motivations" across a few categories (but you could just use the Obligations list) and when these things come into play directly in the game it generates bonuses/penalties on the spot depending on the situation. I prefer this method contextually.

BUT! I think the Obligation system of Edge is a good idea, and has value. It needs a little fine tuning. Their Military line for Star Wars uses a slightly different emphasis called Duty. Same principle. You can even mix-and-match them. I think any RPG could leverage this concept for GMing purposes.

Quote from: tenbones;1102300Secondly, I've seen some players try to meta-game the Obligation system and do things "Screw it - just give me some Obligation and we'll handwave the details." (this never happens at my table, but I've seen it happen at others.)

That's actually the way I have seen it used, and it works out OK because it lets the table time get spent on what the players want to be doing. That's not to say there isn't a cost, as Obligation is really just a "we don't want to deal with this now, but we'll have to deal with it later" plus there is the XP spending lockdown that occurs if it gets too high.

In contrast, I do not use Obligation for things that happen on-screen. Murdering a bunch of people might make you a criminal or get a bounty placed upon you, but you don't get the Criminal or Bounty Obligations because you're dealing with that stuff front & center. Now, if the players don't want to deal with it "right now" and it is not a focus of the gaming, then they might ask to take one of those Obligations now in order to push it into the background to be dealt with later.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1102366That's actually the way I have seen it used, and it works out OK because it lets the table time get spent on what the players want to be doing. That's not to say there isn't a cost, as Obligation is really just a "we don't want to deal with this now, but we'll have to deal with it later" plus there is the XP spending lockdown that occurs if it gets too high.

Yep. Depends on the situation of course. It's one of the things that makes me just cut to the quick and use the Genesys version. Because ultimately I can still use the concept and even mechanics of Obligation/Duty behind the scenes and keep my own scoreboard without having to slow things down - while leveraging the mechanics of Genesys Motivation rules to keep things moving with good player incentivization and keeping directly in the game without missing a beat.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1102366In contrast, I do not use Obligation for things that happen on-screen. Murdering a bunch of people might make you a criminal or get a bounty placed upon you, but you don't get the Criminal or Bounty Obligations because you're dealing with that stuff front & center. Now, if the players don't want to deal with it "right now" and it is not a focus of the gaming, then they might ask to take one of those Obligations now in order to push it into the background to be dealt with later.

I agree completely! This is again what underscores my position above and upthread. I like the concept of Obligation/Duty... I think it gets a little heavy-handed in the Player/GM interaction part. I think those things can be totally unnecessary. GM's should just do it behind the scenes and don't tell the players shit, heh.

But by all means - roll on your Obligation and Duty tables and nail them with it. It keeps players on their toes organically.

... and of course... you can ALWAYS choose to simply not do it because things are going along swimmingly at their own pace. I think it's good concept. Just not quite cooked fully. Easily fixed at the table tho.


Edit: another good thing about Obligation is purely for Chargen. That's a great place to establish it as per RAW.