Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1097022I'm going to be curious to see how many people who've condemned the Random Prostitute Table in the 1E DMG are going to gush over this, or vice versa ...

We allready dissected that a year or two ago as mostly another falsehood.

Quote from: Anselyn;1097020So that's exactly the horror you should face for it to be horror. It's not horror if you like it.

You're correct. That's why all my future CoC sessions will feature a crowded sailing boat where a party of gay men wearing garter belts are toying with nasty spiders while the boat springs a leak in False Bay near Seal Island where great whites breach all the time. Not sure my players will appreciate the scenarios though.

Notice the section on age of consent.

I'll leave it at that.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097017No, I'm a prude and I don't watch anything with crossdressers in it, regardless of imdb rating or Academy Awards. I love horror, but not that kind of horror. I did watch Robin Williams in the Birdcage though, because I like Robin Williams. But Gravels and Line-Boys were absent from that film.

I am fully aware of how Berlin was in the 1920s. But what am I as a Keeper to do with the info of a dozen codenames for different kinds of prostitutes? I want to play a cosmic horror game, not make it a fuckfest session. I might as well find a copy of F.A.T.A.L. and have it as a GM aid when we create Crossdressing German Investigators, for the Anal Circumference table. O la la. Ich bin ein Berliner.

I know who is behind it all. It's that Lynne Hardy. I just know it. Perhaps Mike Mason too, he wear odd clothes:

https://youtu.be/KpoDdihq5Mc

That wasn't Lynn or Mike. That clip was from David Larkins and myself. And for what it is worth, I live in Berlin.

We thought it was amazing that there really was all that detailed information from the Prussian police. That material is included to give the Keeper and the Investigators a feel for the decadence of Weimar Berlin. it isn't included for any purpose other than to help give you a feeling what Berlin was like after WW1. If you look at the art of the time, its sexuality is raw. There's a wonderful, inexpensive Taschenbook called "Berlin in den 1920er-Jahren" which gives a very vivid impression of the look and feel of the city at that time. Or just check out the art of Otto Dix or any of the other Golden Age Berlin artists:

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Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1096971]"Such derision is more than a little ironic considering the fact that the beautiful androgyne-the drag queen, the cabaret chanteuse in tux and top hat-all are shorthand visual symbols for Berlin (even in their own era) and continue to be so in modern times."[/I]. Who writes this manure? Most readers/Keepers/players are heterosexual, aren't they? Or has the world changed when I dozed off this afternoon?

Anita Berber is such a commonly used symbol of Berlin in the 1920s, that she appears as a character in my kids' books from elementary school.
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EDIT: As the OP has already said they are prudish, I posted one of the tamer pictures of Anita Berber I could find.

Another common symbol for the culture of Berlin in the 1920s, is Marlene Dietrich from Der blaue Engel:
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And if you want one messed up film with cross-dressing, decadence, and all that jazz, Der blaue Engel is your huckleberry.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097061Notice the section on age of consent.

I'll leave it at that.

Yes? It's a report of the historical facts (as far as I know) in a setting book. Is your assumption - or standard practice  - to assume that any reporting of historical cultural facts is to approve of them? Get real; we know you're much smarter than that.

It seems to me that if they'd written "The distressing historical details of the age of consent are ...." then they'd be up against it for being preachy SJWs.

What would have done if you had their writing gig?

I had zero interest in CoC before this, but now they've gone and made me 100x more interested.

You should totally check out 'Babylon Berlin' on Netflix. All that tawdry sex stuff of Weimar Berlin is ditched in favour of a good ol' fashioned police procedural.

Quote from: richaje;1097066That wasn't Lynn or Mike. That clip was from David Larkins and myself. And for what it is worth, I live in Berlin.

We thought it was amazing that there really was all that detailed information from the Prussian police. That material is included to give the Keeper and the Investigators a feel for the decadence of Weimar Berlin. it isn't included for any purpose other than to help give you a feeling what Berlin was like after WW1. If you look at the art of the time, its sexuality is raw. There's a wonderful, inexpensive Taschenbook called "Berlin in den 1920er-Jahren" which gives a very vivid impression of the look and feel of the city at that time. Or just check out the art of Otto Dix or any of the other Golden Age Berlin artists:

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I take it the WW1 cripple in the artwork is out looking for gravels then? By the way, since you are Berlin-based and work for Chaosium there was a German Cthulhu Berlin supplement. Did it take a nose dive among the hairy muffs of Berlin prostitutes too? And if the list is just to paint a picture of the decadence for the Keeper, why the mention of the age of consent before the catering list of available unfortunates?

I googled Anita Berber and I found this picture of "the beautiful androgyne":

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Anita Berber looks like the local butcher in drag. Any guy in 80's hair metal looked more of an androgyne than that. I raise you with this:

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Quote from: HappyDaze;1097080I had zero interest in CoC before this, but now they've gone and made me 100x more interested.

Was it the list of prostitutes?

Jeff Richard, will you and Larkins be involved in Cthulhu by Gaslight for the 7th edition as well? I hope that supplement will come with a fine list of the ages of consent. Something similar to this below. Notice 7 years in Delaware:

http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097099Jeff Richard, will you and Larkins be involved in Cthulhu by Gaslight for the 7th edition as well? I hope that supplement will come with a fine list of the ages of consent. Something similar to this below. Notice 7 years in Delaware:

http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Probably not, because the Gaslight genre is not usually depicted as decadent as Weimar Berlin. Unless of course we end up taking a detour down the paths of Jack the Ripper and Dorian Grey. Moore's "Straight to Hell" definitely had a lot of information about Victorian prostitution.

Safe to say the book isn't your cup of Schnapps, it seems. Glad to see other folks on the thread picking up what it's putting down.

I'm busy packing for a 10-day trip, but a few notes:

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097017I know who is behind it all. It's that Lynne Hardy.

Lynne's sole contribution to the quoted material at the top of this thread was helping me sort out the correct spelling of "fohse," which I managed to misspell both times it appears in the text in two completely different ways!

Thanks for the laugh, though--I totally read that comment in the voice of Aunt Bee from The Andy Griffith Show.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1096971But seriously, in what stories by Lovecraft do you find anything remotely close to the sexual decadence presented in Berlin - The Wicked City?

Nowhere to my knowledge. You are aware that CoC encompasses the entirety of the Cthulhu Mythos and not just Lovecraft's Yog-Sothothery, yes? I would think Lovecraft was probably disgusted by the actual Weimar Berlin at the time, but to paraphrase Dr. Frank-N-Furter, I didn't make it for him!

Oh, speaking of mature content warnings, there's also a paragraph right at the front of the book, under the Table of Contents:

QuoteThe "Wickedest City on Earth" did not earn its reputation lightly. Although we have endeavored to engage with this place and time in a non-exploitative manner, it remains to be said that much of the material in this book deals with mature themes--primarily, drugs, racism, and sex. The latter, in particular, in terms of sex magic, prostitution, sexual murder, and all manner of sexual practices is, at least, touched on, if not outright highlighted. Keepers are advised to adjust their presentation of this subject matter in accordance with their own and their group's comfort levels.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1096946I really didn't want to read all the details about different kinds of prostitutes (even teens and younger ones). What's the purpose of this? That a PC can order himself a Telephone-Girl after a hard day's investigation or cruise suburban Berlin in his Mercedes-Benz Modell K looking for Wild-Boys? Strangely enough I had to google a German car model from the 1920s because stuff like that isn't found in the pdf.

I'd love to see someone produce a little supplemental for the Miskatonic Repository covering firearms and vehicles in Weimar Germany. Make a little scratch on the side while you're at it! As mentioned upthread, BtWC is a BIG book which already overran its word count by the time I turned it in. Can't include everything. As others have mentioned, the choice was to focus on the stuff that is harder to source independently, not to mention what made Berlin Berlin at the time.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1097081You should totally check out 'Babylon Berlin' on Netflix. All that tawdry sex stuff of Weimar Berlin is ditched in favour of a good ol' fashioned police procedural.

Hey, isn't that the show where the first episode involves a police raid on a porno shoot depicting Jesus Christ having sex with Mary Magdalene? The one where one of the main characters works part-time in clerical positions and makes money on the side as a prostitute?

Quote from: RandyB;1096975If this is an attempt by Chaosium to present an LGBTQ+ friendly setting, it's an own goal.

The two quoted bits of text in OP's post are both pulled from a larger section on sex and sexuality in Berlin. Those famous photos of Nazi book burnings? They're torching the library of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, one of the first institutions for sexuality studies in the world. The proliferation of prostitution, including underage prostitution, was notorious in its own time. Berlin was a well-known destination for sexuality scholars and sex tourism. To ignore these issues would have been, frankly, baffling.

As for committing an "own goal," I'm honestly not sure what part of having a setting where players can put together a group of queer investigators to fight the Mythos, Nazis, and Communists is undermining any kind of progressive agenda, but YMMV.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097095Any guy in 80's hair metal looked more of an androgyne than that.

Kind of appropriate you post the Vince Neil pic. Berber was a rock star decades ahead of her time and would've fit right in on The Decline of Western Civlization: The Metal Years (or Part I for that matter...).

Anyway, she's definitely a divisive figure. We found during play-testing that players either absolutely loved her or were completely repulsed by her. In that way she embodies 1920s Berlin.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1097080I had zero interest in CoC before this, but now they've gone and made me 100x more interested.

The Streisand Effect is real, people!

Quote from: richaje;1097101Probably not, because the Gaslight genre is not usually depicted as decadent as Weimar Berlin. Unless of course we end up taking a detour down the paths of Jack the Ripper and Dorian Grey.

Or Penny Dreadful, or Oscar Wilde, or Dracula, or Carmilla, or Andre Gide, or the Decadent movement in general...

"According to the Lancet Medical Journal of 1887, it was estimated that there were around 80,000 prostitutes in London which is 3% of the total population of 2,360,000." I think those number would rival Berlins in any decade. And yes, they had BDSM-brothels and other decadent stuff back then too, regardless of Saucy Jack running around in 1888:

http://victorian-era.org/victorian-ladies-night-prostitution.html

Oh, and by the way. Do you guys from Chaosium have any inside info on other LGBTQI+ CoC supplements in the pipeline? So I can save my money, I mean? I do like horror, I just don't like the combo of the Mythos and men wearing lipstick.

But hey, I've got an idea of a brand new line of Cthulhu supplements for you. Call of Cthulhu in the sleazy, funky '70s. Pornshops, whores, pimp canes, Shaft vs Cthulhu? Investigators could dress like this:

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Or whatabout this?

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Hey?

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