I am deeply disturbed by the DC 33 of the Stormflash.  At 14th level, to have a chance to succeed, you need a +13 bonus, but it sounds like a +23 bonus has to be more likely.  Probably a +28 bonus for classes (like Rogue) that are good at dodging Lightning Bolts.  

It sounds like they could compress their numbers a fair bit.

Quote from: Shasarak;1095209Yeah I know.  20 years ago you have plenty of time but no money and now plenty of money and no time. I used to love Shadowrun back in the day but who has time for new funky systems now when the d20 system just does what you want.

I swore never to play or buy PF 1E and next to 5E it is the rpg I play the most. So a person attitudes and feelings towards an rpg can change over time. I hated the system in Shadowrun 1E to 3E found that 4E was a good step in the right direction imo. 5E was good as well just horribly edited and over complex with 6E I hope it will be better. Torg next to Torg Eternity I have heard good things and may get that even then more PDF than print as being a Canadian it can cost between 65-890$ for a core rule book because of the terrible state of our dollar. Given I might not play the rpg i seems wise to just get the PDf. I like what they did with Star Trek adventures though the system is not the greatest imo and not something I may want to run at least for now so I buy in PDF

What will help Paizo sales and what some of those who are overly negative are forgetting about that beyond a few PF 1E hardcovers such as the Inner Sea series of books and others who have tie ins to Golarion. Most of the PF 1E material will be available in pocket editions. If I was not lucky enough to get 10 PF 1E hardcover books at a good price from a used seller from Kijiji I would be buying the pocket editions. I wonder if the seller stole them from a gaming store as beyond him not using them they all have the brand new book smell.

Either way unlike WOTC who did not make their 3E books available at the time even in PDF Paizo is publishing the pocket editions so they have a second stream of incoming that comes in from those sales. As well unless this changes after the release of PF 2E the smaller sourcebooks for as long as print stocks last. Even then they can get money with PDF versions of most of their products. As well unless the Paizo devs are lying to the fans according to them they make the most of their money from the sales of their APs.

Then again I could be wrong and PF 2E will cause Paizo to fail though I don't think so and more importantly nowhere near as fast as some imagine. Unlike some here who forget that Paizo sells more than just PF material they are also trying to release 5E material. They had to take a risk and another recycled, rehash of 3E was not the way to go imo especially with 5E taking away their sales. Though for a company releasing a new edition they should imo be releasing some of their old PF 1E material at discounted prices now rather than later. Maybe that will change as we get closer to the release date of PF 2E.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1095232I am deeply disturbed by the DC 33 of the Stormflash.  At 14th level, to have a chance to succeed, you need a +13 bonus, but it sounds like a +23 bonus has to be more likely.  Probably a +28 bonus for classes (like Rogue) that are good at dodging Lightning Bolts.  

It sounds like they could compress their numbers a fair bit.

You get a +1 for each level so a 14th level character is getting a base +14 to start.

There has been a few more updates on Pathfinder 2.

This one seems interesting: Adventure Marches On

Looks like you get maximum hit points every level which seems nice until you realise that you are probably going to be taking a few more hits.

There are a lot of choices to make every level with feats falling like rain so that is a plus for those of us that prefer a thinking mans DnD.

Honestly not sure how much I like this jargon they are adding, Strike, Press, Flourish, Frightened condition 1, 2, 3.  Sounds like I will need a cheat sheet printed out to save paging back and forth through this 600 page tome.

Quote from: Shasarak;1096314There are a lot of choices to make every level with feats falling like rain so that is a plus for those of us that prefer a thinking mans DnD.

OH good lord. Some day you may figure out it means the opposite. It means stuff you could have thought up for a given situation in-game is instead hamfistedly put into feat rules, disallowing role playing it that way on the fly during the game for anyone in an appropriate situation. It's video-gaming RPGs to have feats falling like rain...the opposite of a thinking mans DnD.

Quote from: Mistwell;1096315OH good lord. Some day you may figure out it means the opposite. It means stuff you could have thought up for a given situation in-game is instead hamfistedly put into feat rules, disallowing role playing it that way on the fly during the game for anyone in an appropriate situation. It's video-gaming RPGs to have feats falling like rain...the opposite of a thinking mans DnD.

Its OK for you to prefer other people to make the choices for your character.  Just relax and let someone else decide.

Quote from: Shasarak;1096317Its OK for you to prefer other people to make the choices for your character.  Just relax and let someone else decide.

What you just described is exactly what feats do. It tells you what you may do, but only with that feat, and exactly how it has to work. So if someone without that feat wants to try that same thing, they cannot because they don't have the feat. You're letting the game designer make the choice for you, rather than thinking through the situation and coming up with the idea on your own on how you want to do something and what you want to do. A thinking mans DnD isn't being spoon fed cool powerz from the book and others not being able to try those things if they didn't take that cool power.

I am listening to Mark Seifter and Linda Zayas-Palmer on Know Directions Twitch stream so dont take this as confirmed, I thought I heard them say that you start with a hero point each session.

That looks like it maps to the Playtest version.  The bonuses were a little anemic in the Playtest so interesting to see if that changes at all.

Skills:

The example Fighter Kaliban starts with 9 skills  Acrobatics, Athletics, Crafting, Desert Lore, Intimidation, Nature, Society, Stealth, and Survival.

I presume that at least 2 of them could be because of his 14 Int and 2 from his background and maybe another 2 if he took the Skilled human ancestry feat.  That means that base Fighter class gives you 3 (as per Playtest)

At level 2  he picks up training in Arcana thanks to his Wizard multiclass feat.

That does look like a significant amount of skills especially for a Fighter (a class that traditionally gets shafted when it comes to Skills) and also a number of non Fighter skills.  On the other hand he did make a significant investment in Attribute score and ancestry feat to get an extra 4 skills

Level 3: Skill increase

So you can choose to improve one of your trained skills to Expert or learn a totally new skill.  Hopefully this allows you to pick your own choice of what skills you can become Legendary at rather then the Playtest version that pushes Signature skills but that was Level 7 in the Playtest.


I think on balance this version of skills is an improvement over the original.

Quote from: Mistwell;1096315OH good lord. Some day you may figure out it means the opposite. It means stuff you could have thought up for a given situation in-game is instead hamfistedly put into feat rules, disallowing role playing it that way on the fly during the game for anyone in an appropriate situation. It's video-gaming RPGs to have feats falling like rain...the opposite of a thinking mans DnD.

Also unless a crunchy ruleset is very well put together the "thinking" is just reading and online guide and choosing the good options and avoiding the bad ones after the community reaches a consensus. Not much thinking there, or much thinking in choosing options based on which sounds the most fun/in-character and ending up with a character that's a lot weaker than the rest of the party. Even if you do a lot of good thinking and set up a good character you might end up with a one trick pony and having a big hammer that treats everything it meets as a nail isn't really about thinking too much in play either.

Quote from: Daztur;1096327Also unless a crunchy ruleset is very well put together the "thinking" is just reading and online guide and choosing the good options and avoiding the bad ones after the community reaches a consensus. Not much thinking there, or much thinking in choosing options based on which sounds the most fun/in-character and ending up with a character that's a lot weaker than the rest of the party. Even if you do a lot of good thinking and set up a good character you might end up with a one trick pony and having a big hammer that treats everything it meets as a nail isn't really about thinking too much in play either.

If your example of a thinking man is someone who copies someone else and ends up with a one trick pony then maybe that word does not mean what you think it means.

I may wait and see what the reviews are for PF2 though still not sure if I will buy it. It is weird I think I'm going through what I call my rpg settling phase if that is even the right terminology. With D&D I just find myself either reading mostly PF 1E with looking through some 1E and 2E D&D. I barely have looked through my 5E books in like months. PF 1E has many flaws yet I think I'm coming to terms with them. Being older and hopefully wiser it is just harder and harder to justify buying more and more rpgs even in PDF format if all they do is take up space either on a shelf or digitally. I'm also not that interested in what WoTC has been releasing for 5E in terms of sourcebooks.

From what I can see from Pathfinder Unchained much of what they included in that book made it into PF 2E and I like most of what was in that book. So maybe I will get it after all. Though I will wait a few months unlike PF 1E which I bought they day it arrived my FLGS. I want to make sure the binding is solid on the core. As I have seen more than one PF 1E core post first printing have binding issues. Good idea in principle just no real good reason at least with PF 2E to not split the books into a PHB and DMG imo.

I lost all interest in the playtest when it became apparent that anything can change, also I felt bored with reading new rules.
I remember reading from Jason Bulhman that he prefers gradual changes to revamps of the system and now they are doing a complete system overhaul.

All that said I remember people being pretty negative about 5e edition dnd and it came out pretty well, I also trust the folks in paizo know what they are doing, they have been working on this system for quite some time.

All THAT said creating sth new is very tricky and I can easily see them fail or succeed.

I can also understand why they aimed for a radical change to the system, instead of continiuing to expand and fix 3.5. They want their game to be stream friendly which is understandable, but I fear they may lose more than they gain, sth 3.0 and 3.5 had that was rare for a dnd edition a short of realism/simulation people liked.

I want to mention they have some cool ideas, especially where monsters are concerned, monsters special abilities seem very spicy indeed.

Reading pathfinder 2nd edition playtest also made consider what all these +1s actually mean, because the difference between a 1st level and 20th level pc is so huge. (In P2e you gain a +1 to basically everything for every level you gain)
It made appreciate system like GURPS more where it easier to compare sth to real word phenomena.

Experience.

Seems the same as the playtest everyone needs a 1,000 XP to level.  You dont need that leveling chart anymore and means those ad hoc roleplaying XP bonuses stay relevant for every level.

I saw someone making a comment that this also lets the DM change to a fast (800 XP) or slow (1500) leveling game just by making an easy adjustment to the XP needed.

Quote from: Shasarak;1096392Experience.

Seems the same as the playtest everyone needs a 1,000 XP to level.  You dont need that leveling chart anymore and means those ad hoc roleplaying XP bonuses stay relevant for every level.

I saw someone making a comment that this also lets the DM change to a fast (800 XP) or slow (1500) leveling game just by making an easy adjustment to the XP needed.

Do you get less XP for defeating the same monster as your level increases, or do you still get the same XP for a rat at level 1 as you do at level 20?