In theory, yes. In practice, in CP2020 as in other games, social skills are usually set aside in favour of roleplaying. If the player is too socially dumb or can't be bothered roleplaying it, then and only then does their Interview(etc) skill level matter.

As well, the simple fact is that the system has character classes, and the sort of character class which benefits from most of the cyber stuff (the warrior and net guys) won't use the social skills much anyway, the sort of character who uses a lot of social skills won't have much need for cyber stuff. In other words, it doesn't matter if the fighter's plate mail makes it harder for him to get along with peasants, he's not doing the talking anyway.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095738This has likely been said but look how dehumanizing a handheld computer you can put in your pocket has been. It's not a far stretch to imagine cyberpsychosis being a thing.

Well psychosis is definitely a thing.  Bit of a stretch to blame it on your phone though.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095829In theory, yes. In practice, in CP2020 as in other games, social skills are usually set aside in favour of roleplaying. If the player is too socially dumb or can't be bothered roleplaying it, then and only then does their Interview(etc) skill level matter.

This is where GMing a game becomes more Art than Science in my book. I can't remember when I've set aside skill rolls in favor of roleplaying. Roleplaying may create a modifier to the skill roll, but the skill roll remains because to do otherwise is to cheat the Player.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095829As well, the simple fact is that the system has character classes, and the sort of character class which benefits from most of the cyber stuff (the warrior and net guys) won't use the social skills much anyway, the sort of character who uses a lot of social skills won't have much need for cyber stuff. In other words, it doesn't matter if the fighter's plate mail makes it harder for him to get along with peasants, he's not doing the talking anyway.

Um, OK. Have you actually ever read the rules or played the game Cyberpunk 2020? What you are saying does not reflect my actual play experience with the game.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095829In theory, yes. In practice, in CP2020 as in other games, social skills are usually set aside in favour of roleplaying. If the player is too socially dumb or can't be bothered roleplaying it, then and only then does their Interview(etc) skill level matter.

As well, the simple fact is that the system has character classes, and the sort of character class which benefits from most of the cyber stuff (the warrior and net guys) won't use the social skills much anyway, the sort of character who uses a lot of social skills won't have much need for cyber stuff. In other words, it doesn't matter if the fighter's plate mail makes it harder for him to get along with peasants, he's not doing the talking anyway.

CP2020 was the game that actually got us making "fighters who talked to peasants". We realized that the "bard" could scream out on two wheels while spraying a smart subbie, the computer geek could schmooze the ladies in a high-end suit and the armored cyber-warrior was able talking down the frothing psycho gang. It broke classes to smithereens for us.

Quote from: Shasarak;1095830Well psychosis is definitely a thing.  Bit of a stretch to blame it on your phone though.

I disagree. People allow things to disconnect them from others and installing said things into you adds to the disconnect.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095853I disagree. People allow things to disconnect them from others and installing said things into you adds to the disconnect.

If you want to follow it all the way down the rabbit hole then you can install an app that helps you to connect with someone.  I listened to a TED talk done by a blind Japanese scientist who uses the facial recognition features on her phone to "see" people and their expressions.  And that is right now.  In Cyberpunk I could imagine an inbuilt AI that could not only feed you social cues but also could monitor your mental health in real time and if necessary administer medicine as needed.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095829In theory, yes. In practice, in CP2020 as in other games, social skills are usually set aside in favour of roleplaying.

Can't confirm. When your Empathy start drops to a certain level (lets say 3), then you still get to play the conversation out but as a GM I interpret it as being merely what your character originally wants to say. But what comes actually out of the mouth might be a bit different, depending on your dice roll.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095853CP2020 was the game that actually got us making "fighters who talked to peasants". We realized that the "bard" could scream out on two wheels while spraying a smart subbie, the computer geek could schmooze the ladies in a high-end suit and the armored cyber-warrior was able talking down the frothing psycho gang. It broke classes to smithereens for us.

CoC did that for me.

Quote from: Shasarak;1095867If you want to follow it all the way down the rabbit hole then you can install an app that helps you to connect with someone.  I listened to a TED talk done by a blind Japanese scientist who uses the facial recognition features on her phone to "see" people and their expressions.  And that is right now.  In Cyberpunk I could imagine an inbuilt AI that could not only feed you social cues but also could monitor your mental health in real time and if necessary administer medicine as needed.

Just chip it in.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095829In theory, yes. In practice, in CP2020 as in other games, social skills are usually set aside in favour of roleplaying.

At my table, you roleplay your Empathy score. Just like you roleplay your SAN score and SAN losses.

Otherwise, WTF? You'd be missing some of the coolest roleplay aspects of the game.

Players of 'borgs were always having fun with their low Empathy scores, a few players were really good at creeping out the table with random quips that showed how far they slid away from "normal human." It was like how people enjoyed the negative side of Crazies and Juicers in RIFTS.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095819You're talking as though changing Empathy stat means something in game on a sliding scale, that someone with an Empathy of 5 is different to someone of an Empathy of 0.1. They're not. Despite being a number, in game terms in CP2020 Empathy is either/or. It's either above 0, in which case play on, or it's 0, in which case hand your character sheet to the DM.

Empathy is an actual stat you use for most of the Social skills in the game? What do you mean that there is no difference? I mean... are you talking about "Humanity"? or Empathy? Humanity are increments of 10 per Empathy stat.

Now - the zero Empathy point is true. But there still is a *direct* impact of having Empathy 5 vs. Empathy 1 (Humanity .01) in terms of basic mechanics of play in terms of social interaction. Of course the point *IS* that if you have low-Humanity, your Empathy is low, your social interaction is going to suck - because the only thing you'll be good at is anti-social asswhipping (presumably).

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095819This differs from Cthulhu's Sanity in that, while starting SAN meant nothing, losing Sanity gave you a chance to acquire various mental disorders along the way. This had the strange effect that someone who gradually whittled down from 95 to 10 SAN ended up with more problems than someone who went from 20 to 10 SAN.

Yep. For *years* I know a lot of CP2020 groups use the Cthulhu Sanity rules directly as SAN-to-Humanity with a few tweaks. Cyberpsychosis is supposed to be reflected directly in the impact of Humanity-to-Empathy. But CP2020 never wanted to get "bogged down" in Sanity rules etc. (which I personally think was a mistake) - but they cover the effects of Empathy loss in the Cyberpsychosis section pretty basically.

Likewise - once you get to zero Empathy, you can (and yeah it's insanely rare - I've only seen my players do it once) capture the PC and have their cyberware removed and undergo therapy to regain their humanity back. But yeah... it's easier to just kill them. LOL

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1095819What you are saying would make more sense if the CP2020 Empathy stat were tied to other things, for example you lose contacts and patrons as your Emp declines, or become more likely to be sent on suicide missions, etc. Of course this can all be roleplayed, my point is that it's not baked-in to the rules as it is with Sanity.

As I said above - it IS tied to your Empathy-based skills: Human Perception, Interview, Leadership, Seduction, Social, Persuasion Fast/Talk, Perform. When you drop that Empathy, those skills - which in my games, generally, are a huge deal, that's a big hit. For some PC's this is fine. A combat-monkey probably isn't going to be doing a lot of Persuasion vs. using Intimidation which Empathy has no impact (it's a Cool skill).

I've enjoyed being reminded of CP2020 by these threads after not playing it for years. I just remembered that the FNFF section has a "Random bad Hollywood movie effects" table for how NPCs react to getting shot.

I was just talking to a friend of mine saying I like that CP2020 is "realistic with a nice dash of bullshit".

Edit: And I'm liking the "streamlining" they're indicating from their blog. Makes a lot of sense - and one being the high-Reflex can make an opposed check to "Dodge" - which comes from their Mekton Roadstrikers rules (I made it a piece of "Bullet Time" Cyberware). They're making it for Reflex 9 characters or higher.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1095874CoC did that for me.

DnD did it for me.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1096064I've enjoyed being reminded of CP2020 by these threads after not playing it for years. I just remembered that the FNFF section has a "Random bad Hollywood movie effects" table for how NPCs react to getting shot.

Oh, yeah! That is such a cool bit.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1096102Oh, yeah! That is such a cool bit.

Has anyone tried the alternative combat systems in Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!!!! , High Noon Shootout and Saturday Night Fistfight?

Quote from: RandyB;1096141Has anyone tried the alternative combat systems in Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!!!! , High Noon Shootout and Saturday Night Fistfight?

I didn't like it. FNFF worked fine for me with just a couple rules tweaks. The HNS and SNF rules were supposed to make it faster, but they did it at the expense of (in my group) the players feeling like they knew exactly what was going on.