Yeah, not engaging in RPG tribalism, but I'll blather on about SJW knucklefuckery.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094555My "boycott" of WotC (and others) is meaningful to me.

It maybe meaninful to you and I respect that.

In the grand scheme of things it's not going to accomplish much.

Sure on a personal level it does. To Wotc or other rpg companies unless enough members of the hobby actually vote with their wallets it will not hurt their bottom line.

Just like how the outrage brigade after SJGames and Frog Good Games refused to bend the knee to them said "boycott they ain't SJW and woke enough" ending up having to shut up because depsite their best effort neither company was hurt at a financial level and the next kickstarters were a smashing success.

Which is why to me it is a wasted effort. If the boycott is not going to be a success I'm not wasting the time let alone the energy on even a personal boycott.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094555My "boycott" of WotC (and others) is meaningful to me.

As GM, I've introduced a lot of people to the RPG hobby over the decades. I've been demo GM at many cons.

Now? I'm very happy to introduce people to RPGs and demo games...but NONE from WotC (and others).

Hollywood isn't going to change because I skip movies where I smell bullshit, but it does keep change in my wallet.

Same with RPG asshat companies.




Go to Other Games and start your thread about whatever Not-RPG weirdness you are "playing"!

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks like this and does this. I'm generally not very interested in "organizing" boycotts, but there are a ton of companies I swear will never see another dime from me. I'll never "take down" the likes of Disney, for example. I don't delude myself into thinking they're missing me or my money at all, but I'm certainly better off in more ways than one for choosing to not be a consumer of their wares.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1094577Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks like this and does this. I'm generally not very interested in "organizing" boycotts, but there are a ton of companies I swear will never see another dime from me. I'll never "take down" the likes of Disney, for example. I don't delude myself into thinking they're missing me or my money at all, but I'm certainly better off in more ways than one for choosing to not be a consumer of their wares.

When enough people calmly decide, "Meh, that new [insert thing] isn't worth my money" on a personal level, it'll pinch even the Mouse.

I don't look at it as a boycott of WotC since it isn't organized or anything. I just won't buy another of their products because of the way I feel I was treated as a customer during 4e and by their leadership (Mike Mearls) now. I may download free stuff and use it (5e Basic Game is not bad for a downloadable PDF), but they do not get any more of my money.

My feelings towards WotC are similar to my feelings towards Mongoose Publishing following the TAS licensing fiasco.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1094579When enough people calmly decide, "Meh, that new [insert thing] isn't worth my money" on a personal level, it'll pinch even the Mouse.

Or they'll spin it as toxicity as with The Last Jedi and Solo (the latter of which I enjoyed) rather than accept that perhaps the product isn't as good as it was hyped to be.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094587Or they'll spin it as toxicity as with The Last Jedi and Solo (the latter of which I enjoyed) rather than accept that perhaps the product isn't as good as it was hyped to be.

It certainly sucks that Disney's handling Star Wars terribly, but when they couple poor products with attacking and blaming consumers it just hurts them.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094587Or they'll spin it as toxicity as with The Last Jedi and Solo (the latter of which I enjoyed) rather than accept that perhaps the product isn't as good as it was hyped to be.

True enough, but I think they went full-on spin cycle precisely because they felt the pinch in those cases. They even invented the term "franchise fatigue" to explain it away in the press (one of the dumbest fucking spins I've ever seen in my life, personally). Conventional wisdom says they couldn't come out and say, "yeah, Kathleen Kennedy couldn't keep her woke mouth shut when it came to the straight white man hate (the very ones who made her insanely wealthy) and we should totally fire her, and Riann was just an absolutely terrible choice of helmsman for Jedi and so the backlash was real and we see that now". I for one, however, would have reconsidered my position with them had they gone against conventional wisdom. It would have been super impressive. But again I'm under no illusion that my position, nor of those who are like me in our stance against Disney, means squat to them. Not unless people continue to take a stand against their bullshit the way they did for Solo and actually put the hurt on em and make it a honest to goodness trend.

What's really sad is the number of companies I can't support with my $$ is growing with their acquisition of Fox and all.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1094606True enough, but I think they went full-on spin cycle precisely because they felt the pinch in those cases. They even invented the term "franchise fatigue" to explain it away in the press (one of the dumbest fucking spins I've ever seen in my life, personally). Conventional wisdom says they couldn't come out and say, "yeah, Kathleen Kennedy couldn't keep her woke mouth shut when it came to the straight white man hate (the very ones who made her insanely wealthy) and we should totally fire her, and Riann was just an absolutely terrible choice of helmsman for Jedi and so the backlash was real and we see that now". I for one, however, would have reconsidered my position with them had they gone against conventional wisdom. It would have been super impressive. But again I'm under no illusion that my position, nor of those who are like me in our stance against Disney, means squat to them. Not unless people continue to take a stand against their bullshit the way they did for Solo and actually put the hurt on em and make it a honest to goodness trend.

What's really sad is the number of companies I can't support with my $$ is growing with their acquisition of Fox and all.

See I don't even care what Kennedy said or the politics of the company. I didn't like Episode VII or Episode VIII, but it wasn't the politics of Disney that got to me, it was the products they put out. The same company also put out Rogue One and Solo, and I liked those. I doubt those two had different "politics" in the board room, and I'm pretty sure Kennedy was there for them too. So I guess I don't see the point in "taking a stand against their bullshit the way they did for Solo" as that one was OK (IMO).

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094608See I don't even care what Kennedy said or the politics of the company. I didn't like Episode VII or Episode VIII, but it wasn't the politics of Disney that got to me, it was the products they put out. The same company also put out Rogue One and Solo, and I liked those. I doubt those two had different "politics" in the board room, and I'm pretty sure Kennedy was there for them too. So I guess I don't see the point in "taking a stand against their bullshit the way they did for Solo" as that one was OK (IMO).

The "wokest" part about Solo was the Social Justice Droid, and even then, I couldn't tell if it was a parody or not.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1094635The "wokest" part about Solo was the Social Justice Droid, and even then, I couldn't tell if it was a parody or not.

Seemed like parody to me. I don't think anyone in the film took it seriously. Lando mourned its destruction, but he didn't seem to care about all the crap it said while it was functioning.

Quote from: sureshot;1094568In the grand scheme of things it's not going to accomplish much.

The only "grand scheme" that matters to me is my life. I grew up in NYC, so my childhood was about being one  wee lad among a vast, unending, swelling and surging sea of people. And that was long before I understood the far larger actual numbers of humanity. I have no illusions about my effect on anything, but I'm well aware of the effect of my choices on me.  

Quote from: sureshot;1094568Which is why to me it is a wasted effort. If the boycott is not going to be a success I'm not wasting the time let alone the energy on even a personal boycott.

I don't use any real effort on my "boycotts" as they're mostly A/B choices. For instance, I don't like spending money  at chain restaurants so if I want a burger, I'll drive past the Golden Arches and stop at Mom & Pop's Burger instead. I denied myself nothing and looking on Yelp takes a meaningless minute at best.

Same with RPGs.

WotC has put out nothing I can't get elsewhere. I've got 40 years in this hobby. If all D&D except 5e didn't exist tomorrow, I could write my own retroclone by Monday.

And if WotC does put out something I really want (like the Gamma World via 4e RPG), I just buy it on eBay where I'm not supporting them whatsoever, but still get what I want.

Bringing this back on topic. Such as it is.

Has anything more happened? Or did Mearls just clam up and the SJWs got bored and went looking for another target?

Quote from: Omega;1094677Bringing this back on topic. Such as it is.

Has anything more happened? Or did Mearls just clam up and the SJWs got bored and went looking for another target?

  Looks like there are some people still pushing on Twitter, partly because Mearls is now out in public again talking about Baldur's Gate 3. He went almost completely silent on Twitter, at least, after the Zak S blowup in February.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094642I don't use any real effort on my "boycotts" as they're mostly A/B choices. For instance, I don't like spending money  at chain restaurants so if I want a burger, I'll drive past the Golden Arches and stop at Mom & Pop's Burger instead. I denied myself nothing and looking on Yelp takes a meaningless minute at best.

Same with RPGs.

Testify. In my experience the big chains, especially the big sit-down chains, never fail to disappoint. Like you, I'll always choose the Mom and Pop place. Especially for pizza. Chain pizza always leaves me cold.

sorry I realize I may have strayed from the OT a little but bringing it back again, if restaurant choice is your analogy it sounds like what you're doing is more an expression of personal taste and preference than anything I'd call a boycott. Is that what you meant all along?