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Pundit, to the question you ask early on in the video: I would say do both, make the content you want to make, but please keep the RPG content coming as much as you can, no matter what else is going on.

I appreciate the videos you make about RPG content, and this site being both open and a place to talk about RPGs, even while everything else is political hell. It's a great hobby and I am happy to see it sustained by more good content. And especially right now it's nice to have a unifying topic to talk to people about.

I really liked your point about the rules reflecting the world and vice-versa. That's a nice little tidbit to hang on to.

I had a thought about your point about gods throughout history always being happy about mortals praying a lot: assuming for the sake of argument that all those gods exist as such, everything we know about them is ultimately filtered through humans, even if it is divinely inspired. What if it's human hubris that led us to think they want to hear from us all the time, and it's a blind spot in our knowledge because we are full of mortal fallibility? I could imagine a god receiving a prayer and thinking "oh, this idiot again, I'm busy". The divine equivalent of picking up your phone and seeing 20 text messages from that kind of annoying person who keeps texting "Hey.".

Maybe that's an opportunity to add another dimension to prayer-based spells: ramping up the cost to decrease the potential annoyance of the god / make the prayer less likely to be annoying (and maybe improve the potential effect). Something like Shadowrun's force/drain mechanic, perhaps.

First of all, once more I am glad to see fidelity to genre being part of the conversation. Secondly, I have to disagree (a bit) about humanity loss: it's representative of a central conflict within cyberpunk - humanity versus machine. The Nerve Attenuation Syndrome in Johnny Mnemonic, for example, serves a similar purpose. It's indicative of a literary theme that asks the question: is there a "too far" in going machine? But, yes, you're right, of course, that in cpunk games the main purpose is game balance, not fiction-driven. As for humanity loss for sex change: I understand why transpeople would feel offended by it - and it doesn't make really sense to me either: following the above logic, I don't think purely biological modifications should cause any loss in humanity unless you're becoming a 40K chaos spawn-like mutant.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1094347First of all, once more I am glad to see fidelity to genre being part of the conversation. Secondly, I have to disagree (a bit) about humanity loss: it's representative of a central conflict within cyberpunk - humanity versus machine. The Nerve Attenuation Syndrome in Johnny Mnemonic, for example, serves a similar purpose. It's indicative of a literary theme that asks the question: is there a "too far" in going machine?

Yep, and it's reflected in the world. The threat of cyberpsychosis drives a lot of setting. One of the  qintessential Cyberpunk 2020 scenarios is the cyberpsycho going nuts in a mall or other public place, and ESWAT having to respond.

QuoteBut, yes, you're right, of course, that in cpunk games the main purpose is game balance, not fiction-driven. As for humanity loss for sex change: I understand why transpeople would feel offended by it - and it doesn't make really sense to me either: following the above logic, I don't think purely biological modifications should cause any loss in humanity unless you're becoming a 40K chaos spawn-like mutant.

Even in 2020 they can't give female reproductive organs to a male-bodied person. (AFAIK) The change is superficial and cosmetic. Like getting a bodysculpt to look like a grasshopper doesn't actually make the person into an insect. They're a very strange looking human being. So I could kind of see the argument that HL would still apply to a transgender person getting a 2020 tech sex change. Their tech doesn't make a man into a woman (or vise versa) and it still carries the setting conceit of trading humanity for technology.
Plus game balance. Players would try to avoid HL by declaring they identify as a cyborg!

Where's the bitchute version...

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1094352. Players would try to avoid HL by declaring they identify as a cyborg!

I'd say that is roughly how you deal with HL loss in the first place.  It just involves a boatload of therapy, counseling, and group support to achieve.

Them you get people who say"I identify as cyborg!" Without doing any of the necessary work to actually acheive the Outlook, so they wind up screaming it while peeling the faces off people who look at them funny in the mall.

I think Pundit follows my own feelings on some of these mechanics which have no logical place in the game world but exist solely for their "balancing" aspects.

Pundit, normally I agree with you but this time you are way off the mark. The humanity loss mechanic in Cyberpunk was not a way to make sure Players don't become assholes, but a method of bringing about the atmosphere of cyberpunk literature of the time, to help emulate the genre. If you want to read Maximum Mike going off on Players being assholes with his game and creating borged out murderhobos, then you need to read the forewards to both Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads and Cybergeneration.

People sort of losing their sanity/humanity due to cybernetic implants is front and center in some stories like Snake Eyes

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1094469People sort of losing their sanity/humanity due to cybernetic implants is front and center in some stories like Snake Eyes

It is present in some stories, but cyberpunk actually had a lot of ambiguity on the issue of whether cybernetics could be a route to evolutionary transcendence or just a way of going mad or reducing yourself to a machine. The uncertain lure of interfacing with a machine is part of what makes the genre interesting.

Part of my issue too was that even if you want to make going mad an inevitable result of continued cybernetic enhancement, turning into a killing machine as the only kind of madness was fairly boring.

In the RPG, you can go a little way down the path of cybernetic modification, but there is a big brick wall you are guaranteed to slam into if you move too far along it.

I think the main mistake is thinking that the reason people lose their sanity has anything to do with cybernetics.

Plenty of examples of 100% pure humans going crazy and shooting up places.

Quote from: Shasarak;1094520I think the main mistake is thinking that the reason people lose their sanity has anything to do with cybernetics.

Plenty of examples of 100% pure humans going crazy and shooting up places.

Its not the only reason.  Humanity loss is just one avenue. And yes it is possible in CP2020 to go full biological transision. If you got the therapy it cost 0 HUMANITY FOR A SEX change.  The full transformation took weeks to months of genetic augmentations and vat growing new organs.  It was never cheap or easy. That said I don't consider transsexuals to be transhumanists.  The reason is simple, transhumanism is about exceeding human limitations, to guide their evolution to not be bound by the limitations of the flesh, to not be controlled or defined by what they are in the flesh but the mind. Changing gender is an aspect of it... A small aspect, but for the transgender community the flesh defines them and inhibits them, because their journey is tied to such s factor of sexual identity. What they have is a psychological condition called gender body dismorphia. They also usually have a brevy of other issues, that compound and aggravate the dismorphio, and it requires a combined multipronged treatment of therapy, a loving understanding community of positive growth support network and if needed medication of various sorts and maybe surgical interventions.  Its a medical condition not a foundation for a philosophical theory.

Quote from: Shasarak;1094446I think Pundit follows my own feelings on some of these mechanics which have no logical place in the game world but exist solely for their "balancing" aspects.

Except we discected your argument into its component molecules a thread ago. Apparently you learned absolutely nothing as it did not suit your false narrative.

Quote from: Omega;1094772Except we discected your argument into its component molecules a thread ago. Apparently you learned absolutely nothing as it did not suit your false narrative.

We did?

Can you run the rest of us that can't remember through your arguments real quick.

Yeah, I thought so.  A big fat nothing.