Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1092402How often does magic use turn out to be counterproductive, under this system?

Rarely.  It's much more common just to fail to cast and lose the spell for the day.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1092402How counterproductive does it turn out to be, when it does -- has anyone ever had an experience of a spell misfire getting a party member killed?

Never lost someone to a spell misfire.  Rarely the caster will have to take a mutation, but you do everything in your power to avoid that.

Which I'm okay with.  In a long campaign your number comes up sooner or later anyway, so "there's mutation but really it's rare" is a feature not a bug.

Quote from: Aglondir;1093616The more I hear about DCC, the more I think "I need this game."

What about the funny dice, though?

Edit: Just saw The Crawler app.

You can pick up a quick start booklet pretty cheap. The dice arent much either if you know where to look. No more than a normal set.

Quick start $2;

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/220858/DCC-RPG-Quick-Start-Rules

Impact Elfball dice aren't bad either.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Impact-Elfball-Dice-Dungeon-Crawl-Red-w-White-7-MINT/133082518148?hash=item1efc561284:g:dDQAAOSwzIJdAKbk:sc:USPSFirstClass!18109!US!-1

Quote from: Dave R;1093660Rarely.  It's much more common just to fail to cast and lose the spell for the day.

How frequently does that happen, then?  I'll grant that simply losing a spell without effect isn't as bad as an actively damaging backfire, but it's still not great -- it's essentially one of your major game-influencing actions being pointlessly wasted, especially at low levels where you may not have many of them.  (I'm assuming that DCC uses the same rememorize-after-casting mechanic that original D&D does.)  And you don't need a major backfire to get a party member killed, you just need to be neutralized from having any effect at the wrong moment.

I appreciate the atmospheric effect of "playing with mighty and unpredictable forces", but -- and this may be my old-school grognard side kicking in -- I do have a distinct preference for reliable effectiveness, and I suspect I'm far from the only gamer who does.  I'd much rather see something where the risk is proportional to the stakes: let a mage choose what level of risk he's willing to countenance in return for the potential reward -- you can have a guaranteed but low-power result, or you can try for a high-power result at the risk of a wasted spell or high-power backfire.  (Or maybe I've misunderstood and this is exactly how it works?  I've failed my Reading Comprehension checks before.)

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1093778How frequently does that happen, then?

About half the time at first, but you can get it up as you level, or by taking stat damage when it matters for wizards.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1093778I'll grant that simply losing a spell without effect isn't as bad as an actively damaging backfire, but it's still not great -- it's essentially one of your major game-influencing actions being pointlessly wasted, especially at low levels where you may not have many of them.  (I'm assuming that DCC uses the same rememorize-after-casting mechanic that original D&D does.)

I have no idea why you would assume that.

Losing the spell for the day is in place of D&D memorization requirements - you can keep casting a spell until you lose it.  There is a chance you lose a spell the first time you try it, but you never start the day with only one spell.

I just found a quickstart book at a comic shop for 5 bucks and am excitrd to try this sysyem out from this thread.

Quote from: Dave R;1093822I have no idea why you would assume that. Losing the spell for the day is in place of D&D memorization requirements - you can keep casting a spell until you lose it.

See, now, that makes a huge difference to my assessment of the situation. I had no idea that was how it was set up.

(The reason I assumed it was still the basic Vancian cast-and-forget model is basically because whenever I hear a game is "OSR" I assume that means "exactly like Dungeons & Dragons unless explicitly specified otherwise". And nowhere in this thread -- or the original "Change 1 Thing about D&D" thread -- does it specify that in DCC, you don't have to re-prepare a spell once cast in order to use it again.)

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1093824See, now, that makes a huge difference to my assessment of the situation. I had no idea that was how it was set up.

(The reason I assumed it was still the basic Vancian cast-and-forget model is basically because whenever I hear a game is "OSR" I assume that means "exactly like Dungeons & Dragons unless explicitly specified otherwise". And nowhere in this thread -- or the original "Change 1 Thing about D&D" thread -- does it specify that in DCC, you don't have to re-prepare a spell once cast in order to use it again.)

Yeah, I mentioned it. But its easy to miss in this thread. Its no big deal, no blame. Its 4 pages.

"Magic isn't "fire it & forget it" like D&D. If you are successful in casting- you can keep casting that spell later.
Same goes with Clerics- but their chance of failure goes up each time. So they are penalized if they keep bugging the "Big Guy' for favors. "

Chill Touch spell for example:
1- (spell) Lost, failure, and worse.  Roll d6 modified by Luck.  

0 or less: corruption + misfire + patron taint
1-2: corruption
3: patron taint (or corruption if no patron)
4+: misfire

2-11 - spell loss, failure

12-13- success.....(and spell is retained)


I like it. It makes magic a bit dangerous and unpredictable.

Another thing that I don't think has been mentioned is "The Funnel".   The first adventure is a bit of a blood bath.   Each player gets 4 or so 0 level normal guys. The butcher, the baker the candlestick-maker- with appropriate crap equipment.  Examples:

Dwarf herder - staff and a sow
Elf sage - dagger and pen/parchment
Halfling haberdasher- scissors (as dagger) and 3 fine suits
Human cheesemaker - cudgel (as staff) and some stinky cheese
Human cooper- crowbar(club) and a barrel

A few coppers and another random piece of equipment. That's it.  If you survive the first adventure you pick a class and start as Level 1.   Elf, Dwarf Halfling is race as class.

==============


Wizard & Cleric we pretty well covered.
 Fighter fights and has "mighty deeds" - think criticals or some other cool move.  Arrow through the hand/disarm, push a group of foes down the stairs or over a balcony, hamstring the Ogre, defend an ally, throw your shield,  whatever. Dwarf is a Fighter with some race abilities.   Elf is the fighter/mage, but is more 'fey', burned by iron.  Halfling can fight with 2 weapons and has more Luck.   Thief has thief skills and more Luck.

What would you say are the best funnel and then starter adventures to convey the DCC differences?  I'm well familiar with old school style but not DCC rules itself.  Only a handful of my players have played an explicitly old school game, though I certainly incorporate such elements.  I'm thinking if I try a DCC session with them, it will be pitched as old school pushed hard.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1093865What would you say are the best funnel and then starter adventures to convey the DCC differences?  I'm well familiar with old school style but not DCC rules itself.  Only a handful of my players have played an explicitly old school game, though I certainly incorporate such elements.  I'm thinking if I try a DCC session with them, it will be pitched as old school pushed hard.

Id say a good funnel is "Hole in the Sky". Ive also used " the Emerald Enchanter" as a funnel though its not meant for that.  " Sailors on a Starless Sea" and " Dread on Demon Crown Hill" are good too.

After they hit level 1 there are many other good adventures.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1093832"Magic isn't "fire it & forget it" like D&D. If you are successful in casting- you can keep casting that spell later.
Same goes with Clerics- but their chance of failure goes up each time. So they are penalized if they keep bugging the "Big Guy' for favors. "

Just to be clear... Clerics can cast without gaining Disapproval as long as their casting rolls remain outside their Disapproval range... which starts at one.
They might fail a spell cast, but unless it's a natural 1 they don't gain Disapproval. Once they roll a 1... then their Disapproval range increases (to 1-2). Actual Deity Disapproval (requiring a roll on a chart of consequences and atonements) remains set at 1. A Cleric can buy down their Disapproval range by making some sort of sacrifice (my cleric of a nature goddess usually destroys some object in her possession that represents technological civilization. Her Disapproval usually builds after a fight and she has to use Lay On Hands a lot, particularly if it's on oppositely aligned PCs).
Either way, they can usually just keep trying to cast the spell... unless they got a 1, rolled on the Disapproval table and had the spell taken away until the Deity's conditions are met.

Deity Disapproval isn't as rare as Wizard's Corruption, but it's generally not as horrific or dangerous either.

Yeah, thanks Simlasa. I was just spitting out some basics.  Thanks for clarifying. Fun game. Worth checking out. The Annual will be out soon too.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1093878Yeah, thanks Simlasa. I was just spitting out some basics.  Thanks for clarifying.

I'm just fond of playing DCC Clerics, because the rules really keep your relationship with your God/Goddess in the forefront.
DCC really could use something like the Patron books, full of different Gods with tailored spell lists, Disapproval charts. and unique spells. I've been messing around with one for Cthulhu... which focuses on dreaming, weird mathematics, and seafood.

Quote from: Simlasa;1093880I'm just fond of playing DCC Clerics, because the rules really keep your relationship with your God/Goddess in the forefront.
DCC really could use something like the Patron books, full of different Gods with tailored spell lists, Disapproval charts. and unique spells. I've been messing around with one for Cthulhu... which focuses on dreaming, weird mathematics, and seafood.

Ha! Funny you say that. I just had a thread on that topic at the Goodman Games forum. I agree with you 100%.
So many detailed Patrons. No detailed Gods.

Someone pointed out " the lesser key to Celestial legions" ( i think that's the title). There are also some detailed Gods coming in the Dcc Annual.