Quote from: CRKrueger;1092932You still mad, bro?

hahahah!

I'm going to run SR someday. It'll happen.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1092931It's funny.  Once some of the people found out Mike Pondsmith was black, and that actual Haitians were involved, some of them backed off and actually apologized.

Which is kind of an insult. Why should their skin color change whether they're right or wrong about a topic?
(I know, Identity Politics is more important to them.)

Quote from: tenbones;1092936hahahah!

I'm going to run SR someday. It'll happen.

Still collecting enough d6s for the punch bowl? You can have my share of future SR playing.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1092931It's funny.  Once some of the people found out Mike Pondsmith was black, and that actual Haitians were involved, some of them backed off and actually apologized.

Even funnier is how many are making excuses for Mike claiming he didn't actually write the offending material in order to continue their crusade.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1092773But that would require actually reading the books instead of just taking offense at the sexy pictures.

that was supposed to be a review?  her entire review of the actual game was this...."The worldbuilding is great; the mechanics are well explained; and while combat is too mechanically involved for my personal tastes, the system is interesting and supports a variety of fight styles. Along those same lines, netrunning is a cool concept and seems to be executed in a fun and interesting way."

Interesting.
The thread STARTS with a prophesy from an old game ...
And people who think they know better(some of the posters here) are quick to jeer at the ones that is clearly a part of it AND their otherwise well-intended notions, without realizing that they themselves are ALSO caught up in it, but from the other side of the coin.
But then it is pointed out that a different crowd of people who think they know better (SJWs) have gotten upset over it, which makes the People who think They know Better ... or PwtTkB for short .... over here draw parallels to dystopias in fiction everywhere (you forgot Brazil) even though those dystopias have very little or NOTHING to do with SJW in particular ... something that CP 2020 ACTUALLY DOES !

Personally, i'll just say:
Let's show we can handle diversity.
Let's show we can handle both Tolerance AND Intolerance, as well as Selective Tolerance, because that is what creates and maintains diversity.

As for Humanity loss for changing sex ....
Yes, that would be iffy, and considering the situation with gender dysphoria, ... you'll be needing counseling more or less anyway, so one could say it would be worth it...
On the other hand, there should be better ways ... and perhaps 2077 has that?
Perhaps i'll buy it.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450Interesting.
The thread STARTS with a prophesy from an old game ...
And people who think they know better(some of the posters here) are quick to jeer at the ones that is clearly a part of it AND their otherwise well-intended notions, without realizing that they themselves are ALSO caught up in it, but from the other side of the coin.

Well that's silly. SJW's that *are* part of the timeline in CP2020 as one of the root causes (but not the sole one) of the deterioration of America, count *anyone* that doesn't fall into their orbit as expressly on the other side. So by doing nothing, you are "caught up in it" whether you like it or not. Because that's precisely part of the deterioration effect.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450But then it is pointed out that a different crowd of people who think they know better (SJWs) have gotten upset over it, which makes the People who think They know Better ... or PwtTkB for short .... over here draw parallels to dystopias in fiction everywhere (you forgot Brazil) even though those dystopias have very little or NOTHING to do with SJW in particular ... something that CP 2020 ACTUALLY DOES !

Show me a third-world shithole that talks about "SJW" needs. Are people in the middle-east, South America, South-East Asia? parading around for LGBT rights? Or trying to censor people's free-speech? Do they push for Trans-bathrooms?  No. Because they're already living the dystopia. This is the point that SJW's miss... the very notion of "Social Justice" is bullshit, because their attempts at perpetrating "Social Justice" on people thrusts the West into third-world dystopian shithole status - as predicted by the game.

Because in order to get what they say they want - they're going to have kill, silence, imprison, by whatever means, everyone that doesn't toe the line. Just like "around the world". This is why cultural relativism is what blinds SJW's. But you know... that's only one part of the poison of pathological post-modernism at play.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450Personally, i'll just say:
Let's show we can handle diversity.

Diversity of thought? Diversity of appearance? Diversity of sexual preference? CP2020 already handles that. You know, because many of us were already doing those things in/out of game for *decades*. Ironic that 30+ years later it only shows that SJW's have literally *regressed* from that position.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450Let's show we can handle both Tolerance AND Intolerance, as well as Selective Tolerance, because that is what creates and maintains diversity.

I, and everyone else, including you, have *nothing* to prove to anyone else. I don't give a fuck about showing others how tolerant I am for any reason. If you're at my table, in my life, clearly I tolerate you. Even this conversation shows I tolerate you. I don't *have* to care one iota about your beliefs/desires/who you want to fornicate with etc. until you start making demands on me (and anyone else) on how I'm *supposed* to be. The reverse is true too. If I start telling you how you're supposed to behave, and how you're supposed to think - you are perfectly free to tell me to fuck right the hell off.

You owe me nothing, I owe you nothing. Want to play a kickass game with me? If not. No problem.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450As for Humanity loss for changing sex ....
Yes, that would be iffy, and considering the situation with gender dysphoria, ... you'll be needing counseling more or less anyway, so one could say it would be worth it...
On the other hand, there should be better ways ... and perhaps 2077 has that?
Perhaps i'll buy it.

Anyone that is so sensitive, to any particular topic matter, shouldn't be consuming those things *to begin with*. It's not incumbent on others, assuming we're all adults, to be policing what is to be consumed, and how it is to be processed. This isn't rocket science.

I feel like the whole situation was based on a poor choice of wording in THAT section by Ross Winn and Eric Oppen.  The tone of that paragraph seems to place Diversity and Unity on opposing grounds, but they're not.  The point of the section was to establish how despite the cultural differences between the Seven Nations, they were able to establish a common Nomad Code to ensure that the Nations worked together to further their interests. It boils down to "we all have a job to do, let's get it done." The VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH says:

Quote from: NeoTribes Pg 7In contrast, the key to the survival of the nomad culture have (sic) always been unity. The nomads understand that they are nomad first. All the cultural identiy in the world will not save them if they do not help each other. Their common condition ensures few disagreements on cultural issues. Where once members of the Jodes and Aldecaldo clans almost went to war over the reconstruction rights for Los Angeles, there is now a bidding etiquette and compensation for losing parties. Where once the Meta and the Bloods feuded over limited medical resources, they now share resources like The Library and MetaKey (see pg. 28). Their shared ideals and  common hardships have made the nomads form a unique culture, one secure enough to allow differences and variety to keep it strong.

Additionally Ross Winn wrote in his introduction:

Quote from: Ross Winn, NeoTribes Pg. 2Nomads are as diverse as America; every bit as terrible, and every bit as great. In this book I have labored to illuminate the good in them, as I believe we should try to see the good in all of us.

Not exactly a scathing condemnation of diversity.

Overall, I think that Division vs Unity would have been a better heading for the paragraph, but I'm 24 years too late to make editorial recommendations. In any case, I do agree that the internet making a fuss about decades old rpg sourcebooks is silly.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;1093655I feel like the whole situation was based on a poor choice of wording in THAT section by Ross Winn and Eric Oppen.  The tone of that paragraph seems to place Diversity and Unity on opposing grounds, but they're not.  The point of the section was to establish how despite the cultural differences between the Seven Nations, they were able to establish a common Nomad Code to ensure that the Nations worked together to further their interests. It boils down to "we all have a job to do, let's get it done." The VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH says:



Additionally Ross Winn wrote in his introduction:



Not exactly a scathing condemnation of diversity.

Overall, I think that Division vs Unity would have been a better heading for the paragraph, but I'm 24 years too late to make editorial recommendations. In any case, I do agree that the internet making a fuss about decades old rpg sourcebooks is silly.

Remember - we're not just talking about Nomads. We're talking about the comparison of HOW CP2020 presents the decline of America. This bit here that supports all the other material (like Home of the Brave) are just nuggets of exposition.

Diversity of thought with the appropriate assumptions on the rules of engagement on how those different thoughts are going to co-exist and sharpen one another is where Unity hangs. That's the unifying principle.

The moment you lose sight of this, then you close yourself off into your little echo-chamber. That's the moment when Unity dissolves because you're now placing the importance of your own ideas over the conditions that allowed for he "diversification of thought" in the first place.

You don't see leftist trying to engage their ideas on these grounds. These days they've turned identity politics into the new "class war". And Nomads are the pinnacle of that concept in CP2020. Because they've lived through the social ravages that caused them to become Nomads in the first place. The REASSERTION of the Unity principle among other Nomads is where they begin practicing the very principle that allows them to flourish, despite differences with other Nomads, rather than just go to war.

Don't mistake the cause for the cure. Because "diversity" of thought is not the same as how it's being implemented by the modern left, today. Quite the opposite. There is a taxonomy of scale in operation to this thing called Nationhood. Leftists think it's about their pogrom and thought constructs to the exclusion of everything else. Well that "everything else" is a whole lot of people.

Quote from: Catelf;1093450Interesting.
The thread STARTS with a prophesy from an old game ...
And people who think they know better(some of the posters here) are quick to jeer at the ones that is clearly a part of it AND their otherwise well-intended notions, without realizing that they themselves are ALSO caught up in it, but from the other side of the coin.
But then it is pointed out that a different crowd of people who think they know better (SJWs) have gotten upset over it, which makes the People who think They know Better ... or PwtTkB for short .... over here draw parallels to dystopias in fiction everywhere (you forgot Brazil) even though those dystopias have very little or NOTHING to do with SJW in particular ... something that CP 2020 ACTUALLY DOES !

Personally, i'll just say:
Let's show we can handle diversity.
Let's show we can handle both Tolerance AND Intolerance, as well as Selective Tolerance, because that is what creates and maintains diversity.

As for Humanity loss for changing sex ....
Yes, that would be iffy, and considering the situation with gender dysphoria, ... you'll be needing counseling more or less anyway, so one could say it would be worth it...
On the other hand, there should be better ways ... and perhaps 2077 has that?
Perhaps i'll buy it.